2078 Season Thread... 2 Rings for the Wings

[The_Niddler]

How mike or Roggie or anyone want to make the argument and if they are meanie heads to you or not just isn’t my department. Sorry homie.

Right, more reasons why it's not your department to call them out but you quickly call out the old school dudes.

That's the point. You're just enforcing it.

Gonna answer the honesty question or nah?

You obviously don't know Shel.

[jeheinz72]

Nah. We said honest answers Shel. Do or die time. You gotta put your last dollar on the line, he cheated or he didn’t. Gotta pick what, in your opinion, happened. No half measures.

Why on earth is what he said “not honest”

There is nothing more honest than “I don’t know” if you literally DO NOT KNOW. I said something similar earlier and I stand by it, I don’t know if Billy cheats or Reign cheated or anyone as a commish cheated. I understand it’s certainly possible to gain an edge so I’m not naive to the thought of it but I’m also not willing to judge someone or question their integrity without knowing so I will always give them the benefit of the doubt.

Literally every commish we’ve had in this leagues history has had a run of unparalleled success during their time as commish. You’d be a fool not to at least be open to the thought, but that’s far from just openly being convinced dudes would cheat their friends in a pointless sim video game.

See now that’s an honest answer, even still saying I don’t know rather than Shel saying I don’t know and deflecting onto making me Roggies policeman for some weird reason

[shel311]

You obviously don't know Shel.

Pssst, I did answer him honestly.

[jeheinz72]

You obviously don't know Shel.

Pssst, I did answer him honestly.

Nah you punted and deflected into your weird obsession with making me call out roggie

[jeheinz72]

My hunch is shel is smart enough to think he did but doesn’t want to say it, which I understand

[shel311]

See now that’s an honest answer

He gave you the same exact answer I did.

[shel311]

My hunch is shel is smart enough to think he did but doesn’t want to say it, which I understand

Again, I just want to point out I got called out for the "lesser than us" vibe while this dude is telling me my opinion I gave him is not my opinion and then telling me what my opinion is.

[GeorgesGoons]

Not that anyone cares what I think, but for the record, I don't think Corey was cheating, just as I don't think Billy was cheating when he was the best team in the league for 15 seasons, or Reign.....Brownbear on the other hand

I also don't want anyone to leave. Most 'active' owners we've probably ever had is right now

But billy did kind of have a history of being pretty damn good before being commish and I'll assume once he passes on the duties of commissioner he'll still be pretty damn good.

[jeheinz72]

See now that’s an honest answer

He gave you the same exact answer I did.

In short yes, but he at least expounded and admitted it’s possible

[jeheinz72]

My hunch is shel is smart enough to think he did but doesn’t want to say it, which I understand

Again, I just want to point out I got called out for the "lesser than us" vibe while this dude is telling me my opinion I gave him is not my opinion and then telling me what my opinion is.

I theorized what I think your opinion is. I didn’t tell you what your opinion is. There’s a difference

[DRiccio21]

Did everyone one of them trade for a large number of players and then have them all simultaneously blow up into future HoFers while simultaneously developing to potential all within the same window? With not a single one of them stalling? Hell, has ANYONE other than Corey have this happen?

Honestly ? Yes

[GeorgesGoons]

We can definitely blame these last 5 pages on some horrible football games.

[jeheinz72]

Not that anyone cares what I think, but for the record, I don't think Corey was cheating, just as I don't think Billy was cheating when he was the best team in the league for 15 seasons, or Reign.....Brownbear on the other hand

I also don't want anyone to leave. Most 'active' owners we've probably ever had is right now

But billy did kind of have a history of being pretty damn good before being commish and I'll assume once he passes on the duties of commissioner he'll still be pretty damn good.

That’s kinda what seals the deal for me. Even if I could somehow believe that the game would dev up 8-9 all time players to all hit at the same time (which I don’t btw)

Boston Franchise: 6179-4679, .569 win%, 67 seasons, 36 playoffs, 8 Titles
20-year-God-era: 2306-934, .712 win%, 20 seasons, 18 playoffs, 7 titles
Other 47: 3873-3745, .508 win% 47 seasons, 18 playoffs, 1 Title

[GeorgesGoons]

And to throw AJ in there for winning 3 titles is kinda unfair. There weren't many people that even knew how to play the game during that time....he "lucked" into them like I "lucked" into mine

[The_Niddler]

I have never said a word on this topic in our league forums, till now.

A couple thoughts...

1st - Shel will never admit to Corey cheating. Ever. (I am not saying he did or didn't, just making a point.)
They are good friends outside of OOTP and Shel has his back. That's ok, I respect that.

2nd - Shel will pick a point and argue till his lips fall off.
Shel, no one cares why Neurotic invited Corey to his Dugout league. That has nothing to do with this topic that they are arguing.
You will not win against Shel, you just have to let it go and stop responding or he will continue to post the same thing, over and over and over again.

3rd - Yes, Corey made trade after trade, after trade, after trade, after trade, after trade, after trade, you get the point.
Dave is correct in that point, but I also agree on his players ratings climbing and the timing and level they rose to being very suspect.

I do want to say, Corey was good prior to being a commish. He wasn't no where near as dominant as during his commish run, but he was good.
Does being a commish give you an unfair advantage to data, behind the scenes, to give you an inside track to being better, not really. There may be a few things, but nothing that really gives you a big advantage, without doing some editing.


I think some of what George said, holds true. I think some of us were worried about the League and forums and what would have happened if.
But I also think, as much as some people think it happened, there simply is no black and white proof and as Mike stated, there never will be because of the way that OOTP has it setup.

Since back when I was the commish here in the NDL, I have asked the OOTP devs to make commissioner edits show up in the players history and make them uneditable or unerasable and sadly, they have never made my wish come true.
Everything should be tracked, even if not in player history, then somewhere, but they don't.
There is no way, to truly, with black and white proof, hold someone truly accountable.


To Dave's point, most of us, as a commissioner, were better when we were a commissioner. As a commissioner, you are forced to be in the game, every single day, and spend tons of time in the game.
I spend way more time in the game as a commissioner then when I was not a commissioner. Not being a commissioner = downloading the new file, seeing if anyone is injured and if not, 99.9% of the time, exporting and moving on.
So that alone gives you an advantage. You get out what you put in.

As a few have stated, I don't want anyone to leave the league. We have the most active members we have ever had right now.

With Corey's situation, when he was on his run, some people questioned it, some did not. Some care, some do not, to Graywolf's point, it is in the past, nothing can be done about it now. The league has moved on, so should everyone else.

I am not being a jerk at all, but if you cannot deal with this potentially happening in the past, there is the door.
It accomplishes nothing to continually bring it up, over and over again.

Take the Frozen approach, Let it go!

[ajalves]

Not that anyone cares what I think, but for the record, I don't think Corey was cheating, just as I don't think Billy was cheating when he was the best team in the league for 15 seasons, or Reign.....Brownbear on the other hand

I also don't want anyone to leave. Most 'active' owners we've probably ever had is right now

But billy did kind of have a history of being pretty damn good before being commish and I'll assume once he passes on the duties of commissioner he'll still be pretty damn good.

not sure what this means really. I am sure he will be too. People take sides...it's cool and understandable. I am not really sure why we're talking about 30 seasons ago....

[ajalves]

And to throw AJ in there for winning 3 titles is kinda unfair. There weren't many people that even knew how to play the game during that time....he "lucked" into them like I "lucked" into mine

nice try. it was 4 titles....

the difference is I had 95-100 win teams and the 3 best SPs (at the time) in the entire league

you're the NY Giants of the NDL.

[jeheinz72]

In all honesty, I think just debating this for however many pages is kinda what I wanted out of it. It’s “out there” now. Agree or disagree, it’d not this thing that people pretend isnt at least a tad suspect

[GeorgesGoons]

you're the NY Giants of the NDL.

[GeorgesGoons]

2nd - Shel will pick a point and argue till his lips fall off.
You will not win against Shel, you just have to let it go and stop responding or he will continue to post the same thing, over and over and over again.

Saying water is wet isn't as true as this statement by JD