NDL Forum

so we doing this to corey or?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1296185956756860928

excited cause i know imma get 1 rule 5'er cause its this meh MR that i like. the other 6? who knows.

This is going to be a bit wordy but I hope it will make sense and we can move forward.

I'll just start off by saying I hate all the negativity in the last 12 pages or whatever. I like league chatter and page counts but I'd prefer it to be about trade rapes, bad free agent signings, or general league stuff. There is no Dugout vs older guys thing in our league. I am in the Dugout for gods sake. This all got way out of control the last two days. This is the NDL forum and anyone here is NDL. Yes our older guys get defensive when it comes to defending the forums and I am one of those guys as well although I am wise enough to know Slack has its value. Any new guys who join have an equal voice and opinion here. Ryan (Moose Jaw) is who I have pegged as the next guy to run things when I am ready to stop and he joined after me. Mike (Neurotic) is my backup simmer, bails me out all the time when things come up and helps me with tons of OOTP questions as he knows a ton.

This brings me to the main topic of the last two days. Regardless of what side you fall on in this debate there are two things that are absolute facts.

1. Bringing it up all the time hurts the league. It brings absolutely nothing to the table. It divides guys. Makes guys angry. Makes guys not want to come and read the thread. I can't imagine being new to the league and seeing all this. It drives guys away. We have seen two NDL Mt. Rushmore owners leave us the last year and regardless of what is said it all started from the same type of shots on the forums that soured them to the point they lost enjoyment. I don't see how that helps us.

2. The NDL is better with Corey in it. He has been an integral part of this thing for over a quarter of his life. I am not commenting on the issues discussed because it just does not matter. He is an active owner, tries to trade his ass off, is active on the forums and is my good friend.

I am not taking sides here as many of the guys arguing for or against cheating are some of the guys I talk to the most. I don't want to lose any owners because we really are at the best place we have ever been as far as quality of owners, exporting and competitiveness. The way things are going the last two days will result in guys quitting or starting to care less and I just don't see how that is a win for any of us who care about this league.

I am not here to censor guys or tell you what you can't say. The NDL is not my league. It was here before me and will keep chugging along under new leadership when the time comes. Right now I am the caretaker of the league and all I ask is that you respect each other and respect the league. We don't want to drive guys away, we don't want to make guys uncomfortable to the point they won't come and post on the forums. This topic has been beat in to the ground. It has been 4 years in real life. Lets move on and keep this great little thing that we love moving along. Lets stop attacking guys character and go back to making fun of Hank's terrible free agent signings and George's old man takes.

File is uploading...

Warner"The Thief"Woods

Actually says Silva will be wearing an Eskimos hat

Poor guy

Rule 5 draft results:
Round 1
Round 1, Pick 2 - Cookeville Cubs: LF Dave Twyman, from the Houston Alcoholics.
Round 1, Pick 3 - Detroit Muscle: SP Alex Mason, from the Atlanta Bobcats.
Round 1, Pick 4 - Anchorage Eskimos: CL Jon Martínez, from the Houston Alcoholics.
Round 1, Pick 5 - Omaha Beef: SP Chris Baldwin, from the San Francisco Seals.
Round 1, Pick 7 - Bowie Bulldogs: 3B José Carlos Rodríguez, from the Washington Thunder Crabs.
Round 1, Pick 9 - Los Angeles Bomb Squad: SP Willie Campos, from the Anchorage Eskimos.
Round 1, Pick 12 - Rose City Beaver Bashers: CF Lúcio Pérez, from the Winterfell Direwolves.
Round 1, Pick 13 - San Francisco Seals: LF Luis Martínez, from the New England Spitters.
Round 1, Pick 15 - Richmond Greeks: RP Joe Dawson, from the San Francisco Seals.
Round 1, Pick 17 - New England Spitters: RF Jesús González, from the Cookeville Cubs.
Round 1, Pick 19 - San Diego Invaders: LF Juan Martínez, from the Houston Alcoholics.
Round 1, Pick 21 - Alabama Bears: 1B Lúcio Carrillo, from the Washington Thunder Crabs.
Round 1, Pick 22 - Baltimore Red Crabs: SS Brett Maez, from the Boston Minutemen.
Round 1, Pick 29 - Seattle Windstorm: C Norm Valdéz, from the Omaha Beef.
Round 1, Pick 30 - New York Ducks: SP Kevin Webster, from the San Diego Invaders.
Round 2
Round 2, Pick 7 - Bowie Bulldogs: 2B Pete Cornett, from the D.P.R.K Victory.
Round 2, Pick 12 - Rose City Beaver Bashers: LF Shi-yu Shen, from the Baltimore Red Crabs.
Round 2, Pick 13 - San Francisco Seals: CF Jon Meredith, from the Cleveland Spiders.
Round 2, Pick 17 - New England Spitters: RP Carlos Barrera, from the Detroit Muscle.
Round 2, Pick 21 - Alabama Bears: 1B Myles Park, from the Fresno Grizzlies.
Round 2, Pick 29 - Seattle Windstorm: C Arturo Rodríguez, from the Fresno Grizzlies.
Round 2, Pick 30 - New York Ducks: CL Fernando Juárez, from the D.P.R.K Victory.
Round 3
Round 3, Pick 7 - Bowie Bulldogs: RF Frank Hindle, from the Detroit Muscle.
Round 3, Pick 17 - New England Spitters: C Brad Ward, from the Alabama Bears.
Round 3, Pick 29 - Seattle Windstorm: C Jeff Powell, from the Edmonton Mounties.
Round 3, Pick 30 - New York Ducks: RP Chris Robinson, from the Boston Minutemen.
Round 4
Round 4, Pick 7 - Bowie Bulldogs: SP César Álvarez, from the Washington Thunder Crabs.
Round 4, Pick 17 - New England Spitters: SP Elmer Herod, from the Rose City Beaver Bashers.
Round 5
Round 5, Pick 7 - Bowie Bulldogs: SP Elroy Clark, from the Washington Thunder Crabs.
Round 5, Pick 17 - New England Spitters: C Ed Frazier, from the Edmonton Mounties.
Round 6
Round 6, Pick 17 - New England Spitters: C Jeff Martin, from the San Francisco Seals.

1st off, well said Billy. Thats what a commish does right there. I for 1 took nothing personal, and I hope no one took anything I said personal. Now Idgaf if that topic ever comes up again. I didnt realize mentioning a HOFers name would escalate into so much bickering. So next week Ill select a HOFer with care

And yo Spitters, save some damn catchers for the rest of us! You rule-5, catcher hoarding fool!

Jk, but im sure you know that.

Time to go see how much more salary I need to shed. Because watching ppl sign FAs kinda sucks. I wanna be in on the spendin too!

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:42 am

ajalves wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:41 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:00 am The passive aggressiveness in this league runs deep. Hell, it even ran off, arguably, one of the best owners to ever grace the league....and he knew nothing about baseball. And I mean NOTHING!

a self admitted 'cheater'...

Was it cheating or exploiting? Honest question. Everything he did with that exploitation was something we all could do. If it was the searching for IFA's that weren't signed right away by teams. I'm not sure if this is what you were talking about, or if it was before my time.

I know for a fact that Ted could not have altered any ratings as he had zero access to them. To me that is blatant cheating, exploiting a flaw is not cheating. A little shady, yes, but not cheating. And that was right around (or before) I joined in 2021. He showed he was an exceptional owner and didn't need to cheat to win for the next 50 or so seasons. Can't say that for what we have been discussing over the last 12 or so pages. The record proves it, a .500(ish) owner goes on an unreal run as commish. Then becomes a .500(ish) owner again once he relinquishes the commish role.

tomato tomato....you stick up for Ted cause you have a soft spot for him. the entire foundation of hi 'success' is due to cheating. When someone intentionally does something they know the game isnt intended to do......well....call it whatever you like

ajalves wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:14 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:42 am

ajalves wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:41 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:00 am The passive aggressiveness in this league runs deep. Hell, it even ran off, arguably, one of the best owners to ever grace the league....and he knew nothing about baseball. And I mean NOTHING!

a self admitted 'cheater'...

Was it cheating or exploiting? Honest question. Everything he did with that exploitation was something we all could do. If it was the searching for IFA's that weren't signed right away by teams. I'm not sure if this is what you were talking about, or if it was before my time.

I know for a fact that Ted could not have altered any ratings as he had zero access to them. To me that is blatant cheating, exploiting a flaw is not cheating. A little shady, yes, but not cheating. And that was right around (or before) I joined in 2021. He showed he was an exceptional owner and didn't need to cheat to win for the next 50 or so seasons. Can't say that for what we have been discussing over the last 12 or so pages. The record proves it, a .500(ish) owner goes on an unreal run as commish. Then becomes a .500(ish) owner again once he relinquishes the commish role.

tomato tomato....you stick up for Ted cause you have a soft spot for him. the entire foundation of hi 'success' is due to cheating. When someone intentionally does something they know the game isnt intended to do......well....call it whatever you like

That's still a huge difference, though. Shady =/= cheating. Douchey, sure, but not cheating. We've all taken advantages of glitches or crappy AI in games before. We've all ran a cheese Madden play when we needed a TD or a big gain. But there is a MAJOR difference in doing something the game lets you do, even if it's not intended, compared to manually editing numbers to artificially inflate a player's ratings.

I hear you Roggie. I honestly wasn't comparing anything. All i was hinting at it certain people take sides.....

I alllmost posted 5 pages ago that George would bring ted up and how he was 'run off'

ajalves wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:22 am I hear you Roggie. I honestly wasn't comparing anything. All i was hinting at it certain people take sides.....

I alllmost posted 5 pages ago that George would bring ted up and how he was 'run off'

That's totally fair. You didn't and I read it as it was, so that's 100% on me.

Good job taking ownership Roggie before I had to come on here and hold you accountable

no reason to worry about me being offended lol. everyone has their thoughts/opinions. I don't have feelings....

ajalves wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:14 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:42 am

ajalves wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:41 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:00 am The passive aggressiveness in this league runs deep. Hell, it even ran off, arguably, one of the best owners to ever grace the league....and he knew nothing about baseball. And I mean NOTHING!

a self admitted 'cheater'...

Was it cheating or exploiting? Honest question. Everything he did with that exploitation was something we all could do. If it was the searching for IFA's that weren't signed right away by teams. I'm not sure if this is what you were talking about, or if it was before my time.

I know for a fact that Ted could not have altered any ratings as he had zero access to them. To me that is blatant cheating, exploiting a flaw is not cheating. A little shady, yes, but not cheating. And that was right around (or before) I joined in 2021. He showed he was an exceptional owner and didn't need to cheat to win for the next 50 or so seasons. Can't say that for what we have been discussing over the last 12 or so pages. The record proves it, a .500(ish) owner goes on an unreal run as commish. Then becomes a .500(ish) owner again once he relinquishes the commish role.

tomato tomato....you stick up for Ted cause you have a soft spot for him. the entire foundation of hi 'success' is due to cheating. When someone intentionally does something they know the game isnt intended to do......well....call it whatever you like

Sooooo, was it cheating what he did?

ajalves wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:49 am

Seeitsaveit13 wrote:

BigRy wrote:All of this is shady. And whomever has been doing the IFA search, whether it was the shady path or legit route, it should have been made public knowledge. Just the fact that guys have covered it up all this time is suspicious.

No offense, but going to free agents, setting a filter for "not American" and "under 25" isn't hard, not was it rocket science. I did it just on a hunch, and that's how I found the 3 or whatever guys I have on that list. Were they good? Nope. Is it shady? No. They're free agents, in free agency, and all I did was save myself sorting through 19 pages of bs. I know you're not accusing me, but the people that had filters to save time aren't at fault here, nor do we need to make everything public and easy (like Dave has intimated in the past).

this. i have 3 guys on the list, its pretty simple.

free agents>customize> the normal boxes are checked, just add 'nationality'> ...done

to say that is shady or the same as what trendon and others were doing isnt accurate

Can we run this draft lottery already...I need to know what sort of trade bait I might have with it. Besides, we're at 18 pages and just finished rule 5, we've blown monotony out of the water this off-season

KShorey wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:32 pm Can we run this draft lottery already...I need to know what sort of trade bait I might have with it. Besides, we're at 18 pages and just finished rule 5, we've blown monotony out of the water this off-season

Agree! I'm done with the conversation for now. I didn't mean any ill will towards anyone. I just don't like the hypocrisy we have shown with the topic

DRiccio21 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:16 pm
Here’s the thing about what you’re doing.

You’ve created a narrative during your time here and you continually live in that narrative and keep adding layers to it over time and are now emotionally entrenched in your fairy tale you created... which believe or not I think is fine, everyone is entitled to think whatever the fuck they want.

But, with that said:

a) you don’t actually know what you’re saying is FACTUAL and you weren’t even here. To be willing to go so hard on a topic you weren’t actually here for is a bit puzzling at best and borderline narcissistic at worst. There was literally YEARS of game play and decisions that were made to create his super teams

b) others of us were here so your suggestions are offensive to those of us who were participating as if we openly allowed someone to cheat and we were too dumb to see it.

C) the dudes he got in trades were always the top of the top prospects. If you want to argue he gave himself a head start by having cheated at the beginning to get the original studs to trade them off for other stud prospects, then maybe that’s fair (I’m not going there but that’s one possible thing I can’t guarantee didn’t happen). But I literally watched him trade for the top prospects over and over and over and over by dumping his studs off to those owners. The dudes were always insane and back then if you had a projected top prospect they basically always became stars. There was far less variance in the scouting as there is today

D) I don’t even get along w Corey.

E) AJ won 3 titles in a row, did I mention how unrealistic that is.

F) I know you keep downplaying his willingness to break up his team, but he did do that without anyone making him or wanting him to. I actually was very much against it. He was making smart moves over and over and deserved the squads he had at the time of the breakup.

Again, I can’t guarantee he never fucked with his original team to get the head start... I don’t think he did, but I can’t guarantee it... but I can guarantee he made very smart trades from a financial and roster building perspective that continually helped him win during that run.

I missed all of this, or I would have spoken up before. I'm not going to try to rehash all of this as it appears to have died down, but I also can't let Neurotic get flamed with no backup.

He didn't create the narrative. The narrative was there, and existed, long before he arrived. Those of us who feel the way (or similar) that he does mostly chose not to light the match on the fuse that would have almost certainly detonated the league at the time. There were more than a handful of folks who felt the exact same way Neurotic did/does before he even arrived. Out of respect for the league and the commish's and keeping things together, I (we) never said anything.

I do think the reason it never came up sooner is because we all (or at least most of us) like Corey. We all know him from back in the day with NCAA and feel like we know him through facebook and Miami and his kids and his love for craft beer/apple/tesla etc. I personally really do like Corey and if work ever takes me to Dallas he'd be one of the first people I'd reach out to to grab a beer. So I think the assessment about others of us being here and not saying anything about it were idiots is off. We didn't say anything because we liked the league, we liked corey, and we didn't want to either A. believe it was true or B. Deal with the fact that it could have been and what it might have done to the league/our "friend" (only in quotes because most of us have never met) Corey.

When it was happening, and it seemed more and more improbable that his team was as good as it was and some of the players were superhuman, none of us were "saving receipts" because putting that type of effort in to prove that a friend was cheating at an online game seems a little excessive. I know I spoke with multiple members of the league about it at the time the general consensus was basically that it was happening but why would we want to risk blowing up the league just to prove it.

As other snipes popped up from Neurotic and others throughout the years, I usually threw in a passive aggressive snipe just to kinda say "hey man, we know, so you should know we know" but usually take it passed that. Again, we don't have receipts, and out of respect for Billy I told him I'd never try to blow it up. At the end of the day, even if we had the smoking gun that would prove it once and for all, what would that accomplish. We'd alienate a friend, likely take 5-6 owners with him, and blow up this league that has now been going for 10 ACTUAL YEARS. What good is that? Its essentially the Russia-USA assured mutual destruction conundrum. We can both blow each other up without stopping each other, but then we're both blown up and gone with what benefit?

Also, AJ won 3 titles because he was the first to realize that pitching was super important in the first few versions of the game and was also the first to go "all in" on a competing run. He hasn't been relevant or responded to a trade request since then, but we do love him.

I've said my piece about this. I'm fine with moving on now. Just know that any time historical Boston players from that era are brought up or title runs etc are brought up, its always going to be a trigger for those of us who felt that way, so that's why you'll still see some eyerolls etc in those cases. I'll do my best not to re-poke any bears.



Shel Notes:
-Neurotic didn't start this on his own, he just had the guts to speak up
-There are others who felt the way (or similar) that he did but we didn't speak up
-I like Corey and would grab a beer with him
-Why nuke the league just to prove a point that is long gone?
-AJ hasn't been good in 50+ game years, not enough people talking about this...
-I personally am moving on from this, but didn't want to leave Neurotic hanging without at least saying my piece

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:16 pm

shel311 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:28 pm

jeheinz72 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:18 pm Though I think honestly this conversation has illuminated likely a larger issue. One being that Mike/Roggie/me/RW are evidently perpetually lesser-than because we all were previously in another league together,

Are you pretending that you dudes aren't acting like we're all lesser than because you're all smart enough to know what happened even when you weren't in the league, and all of us just weren't smart enough to see it , is that what we're doing now?

a little self awareness would help here, come on man.

My other posts explains this part. There were plenty of people that thought it, but it wasn't worth blowing up the NDL for it at the time.

That.

Sorry, now I'm done.