4 down, 46 to go

[ajalves]

You don't get that SAYING "I'm sorry" IS NOT ENOUGH. The Lord knows if you are being honest. You have to BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, that He is the Son of the Living God, and that through Him and ONLY THROUGH HIM, you can be forgiven of your sins and saved.

there are just so many "rules", its such a turn off.

im also turned off by the guilt trip some church goers throw down.

If "the lord knows if I am being honest", then 'i'm sorry' is enough

[jsence2]

what is the standard of "good?" what is the deciding factor between being a "good person" or not?

There is no such thing as a good person. Every day I get up I am depraved and self centered, this only changes when I speak time with my Lord and get my head on right to serve others that day. If not for Him, there is no possible way I could be working in the service industry for the past 10+ years. I would have killed some people by now for sure, I'm not kidding.

So, what about those people who dont speak with the Lord every day but still go out that day and are pretty much always nice to others, help out others, or willing to put others first before themselves.

Those are not good people?

They may be good people, but unless they believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that through Him alone the Kingdom of Heaven can be achieved, then their works are nothing more than good works.

[shel311]

So, like I've asked twice, those people are going to hell but the rapists and murders who truly ask for forgiveness and repent are going to heaven?

[LetsGoPeay]

I can do no more than pray for your eyes to be opened, and then move on to others who truly want to get answers.

Hey thanks! I appreciate it. When are you going to get that done? Do you think you could squeeze that in between perusing the porn in the female forum and cussing people out in the UK basketball thread? That would be ideal.

How's that for taking a shot at someone? Oops, better go ask for forgiveness.

[Cnasty]

In my opinion the people arguing and wasting their time with the hardcore religious people are just as crazy as they are.

[LetsGoPeay]

Yeah I know. I swore I wouldn't get involved in this thread. I wish I hadn't. It's like arguing with Feisty.

[jsence2]

I can do no more than pray for your eyes to be opened, and then move on to others who truly want to get answers.

Hey thanks! I appreciate it. When are you going to get that done? Do you think you could squeeze that in between perusing the porn in the female forum and cussing people out in the UK basketball thread? That would be ideal.

How's that for taking a shot at someone? Oops, better go ask for forgiveness.

You seem to have this misguided notion that being a "Christian" means I have to be perfect.

I don't have to answer to anybody on this earth. I have to answer to the Lord my God, and Him alone. When the judgement day comes, my faith with be rewarded.

Shel, if a person is truly forgiven by God, then that means the person has confessed their sins to the Lord, and is asking for Him to forgive them. To ask for forgiveness and not MEAN it is meaningless, for the Lord knows your heart before you show it. Asking for forgiveness is not enough, though. That forgiveness only comes from the death of Jesus Christ--as the wages of sin are death, and through Jesus Christ, that debt has been paid, so that we may not die, but live everlasting life in the kingdom of Heaven. To be truly forgiven, you must:

1) Confess your sins to God
2) Believe with all your heart--not your mind, but your HEART--that Jesus Christ was sent to Earth as the Son of God, to pay for our sins, past and present, and give us the gift of eternal life
3) ACCEPT the Holy Spirit into your heart and walk with the Lord every day of your life

Those are three things you cannot do with your works, with your words, with your mind. You must do them with your HEART. If the rapist, murderer, etc are truly repentful and do those three things, then they are forgiven.

You have to understand that in OUR EYES, those things are "worse sins" than others. To God, there are only two sins that "rank" above others--putting something BEFORE Him, and worshiping false idols--be it another God, a toy, money, etc. Those are the two sins that "rank" above all others. But even those can be forgiven if you are truly remorseful, and you make peace with God the Father.

[shel311]

But you still haven't answered my question.

Murderer kills 50 people. Later in life, he is sorry and does ALL those things you said.

Another person, doesn't believe in God but leads about a perfect life as us mere mortals can in regards to how he treats others.

Murderer goes to heaven, the other person doesnt????

[jsence2]

But you still haven't answered my question.

Murderer kills 50 people. Later in life, he is sorry and does ALL those things you said.

Another person, doesn't believe in God but leads about a perfect life as us mere mortals can in regards to how he treats others.

Murderer goes to heaven, the other person doesnt????

Do I really need to answer that question? Why would the God our Father welcome someone into His home who denies He exists?

The Lord is our Father. Like any father, He loves us and wants us to come to Him. Read the parable of the prodigal son, if you're willing to take the time.

[shel311]

That is so dumb to me.

I much prefer my version of God and Heaven, which lets the TRULY good people go to Heaven.

It's ridiculous that a murder or child rapist could get into Heaven before a person who does good his whole life.

Sounds like God is kinda selfish if that is the case and just wants the people who worship him and bow down to him like he's on a power trip, instead of wanting the TRUE good people in the world.

[jsence2]

That is so dumb to me.

I much prefer my version of God and Heaven, which lets the TRULY good people go to Heaven.

It's ridiculous that a murder or child rapist could get into Heaven before a person who does good his whole life.

Sounds like God is kinda selfish if that is the case and just wants the people who worship him and bow down to him like he's on a power trip, instead of wanting the TRUE good people in the world.

No, He doesn't. He wants you to BELIEVE IN HIM! The Lord gives us life, blessings, etc. He is to be praised and loved for that. Everything we have is given and taken away at the will of the Lord.

If you are doing good works, and they are not in His glory, then they are in YOUR glory. You are doing them to gain noteriety for yourself. I give often to charity and often donate my time, and I never brag about it. I don't make a big deal about it. It's because I'm doing it for the glory of God, and not myself.

Someone like Oprah, unless she believes in the Lord and loves Him with all her heart....her good works are simply good works.

Everyone who does good things does it for the glory of someone. If not for the Lord, then for whom?

[shel311]

So, where do those "good people" who dont believe in God go?

They go to Hell?

This is bizarro world to me, lol.

[dakshdar]

So, where do those "good people" who dont believe in God go?

They go to Hell?

This is bizarro world to me, lol.

The cool people just hang out in purgatory.

[shel311]

So, where do those "good people" who dont believe in God go?

They go to Hell?

This is bizarro world to me, lol.

The cool people just hang out in purgatory.

I'll see you there. Grab me a beer if you get there before me.

[shel311]

Hart, you're saying Dak can't logically grab me a beer in purgatory?

[jsence2]

Shel, this is my final post on this topic. If you truly want answers, then I will give you some sources to read. I've had some of the same questions you have, and I've done a lot of studying and talking to people whose knowledge of the Word is far beyond my own.

1) This passage says it the absolute best, about people who were "bad" being forgiven and brought into Heaven:

1st Letter to the Corinthians, Ch. 6:
(9) Or do you not know that unjust ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,
(10) nor thieves, nor covetous ones, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor plunderers shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(11) And some of you were these things, but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God.

2) This is one of the best explainations I've come across: http://www.rationalchristianity.net/perfection.html

It basically states it in a way I should have sooner--we ALL fall short of the glory of God. As Packsy said earlier, there is nobody on this earth but Jesus who has failed to sin. That sin has to be paid for.

The wages of sin is death; but Jesus Christ paid that debt with his blood. To believe in Him is to accept the forgiveness of your sins that come with allowing Him into your heart. If you do lots of good works, you have still sinned at some point in your life. If that sin has not been forgiven, then YOU must pay the debt. The only thing that can pay that debt is the blood of the Lamb, and you must be cleansed in the blood of the lamb to be granted entry into Heaven.

And the wages of sin is death. Meaning you cannot enjoy everlasting life in Heaven.

I hope that answers your question, because it's the best answer I can come up with.

[OracleHCR]

So, where do those "good people" who dont believe in God go?

They go to Hell?

I don't understand the question. If they don't believe in God, then why would they worry about it?

[shel311]

So, where do those "good people" who dont believe in God go?

They go to Hell?

I don't understand the question. If they don't believe in God, then why would they worry about it?

I didnt say they should worry about it,a nd i see your point, but I find it hard to believe that someone who lives a life doing for others more than 99.9% of the world is going to go to hell while murderers and rapists can repent and be in Heaven.

[vicktim7]

So, where do those "good people" who dont believe in God go?

They go to Hell?

I don't understand the question. If they don't believe in God, then why would they worry about it?

I didnt say they should worry about it,a nd i see your point, but I find it hard to believe that someone who lives a life doing for others more than 99.9% of the world is going to go to hell while murderers and rapists can repent and be in Heaven.

it is hard to believe, and in a sense, that's what's so "amazing" about grace. it's a free gift given to all. the point is, we can't be good enough for God. a perfectly righteous God cannot coexist with imperfection, i.e. us. the bible says that the wages of sin is death. think of the old testament sacrificial system. sin required a death as a sacrifice offering. that sacrificial system still exists in God's eyes. Jesus, however, paid that penalty for everyone. there's no more sacrifice needed. however, what is needed is an acknowledgment of that sacrifice: true belief in who Jesus was and what he did. it is that faith in his complete work that pays the penalty for us. when he died, my sins and everyone else's sins died with him on the cross. when we accept that gift, when God looks at us, the bible says he sees what Christ did for us, not our sin.

more to your point, God's standard is so high, it cannot be attained no matter how "good" we are. it's never good enough. no matter what i do, i will never be able to dunk on a 14 foot tall goal. i could train my entire life, do everything perfectly, and not be able to do it. i need help. same applies with life.

i completely understand your question because it's a question that i still struggle with myself. many others have and will. but look at it from the other perspective. isn't it wonderful, in a sense, to know that regardless of our situation, there's always hope? that doesn't mean our earthly consequences will be taken away. the murderer will still face prison or death. however, that person can still find peace. whether we like to think of it or not, even the worst criminal has an eternal soul just like, say, mother teresa.

it's a very good, tough question, shel. i hope what i wrote at least sheds some light from a biblical perspective.

[shel311]

it's a very good, tough question, shel. i hope what i wrote at least sheds some light from a biblical perspective.

Nah, that's good stuff Vicktim.

You approach this from a very well thought out perspective, IMO.