COVID-19

[jeheinz72]

And back to healthcare literally every other industrial country on the face of the Earth has figured it out. They all have better
or comparable outcomes and spend vastly less per capita then we do with our private healthcare.

I'd counter that saying every other country on Earth doesn't face the same set of challenges that America does, given our standing amongst world powers. And the challenges are wide-ranging, from apathetic generations to greedhead politicians to literally being THE place many non-Americans would choose to immigrate to if given the opportunity to being (whether we want to or not) the world's police force and general fund.

Sure - some other countries have some subset of those challenges, no doubt about that - but no other country faces all of them.

I truly wish I could say that I believe gov't run healthcare would be the best option. I wish that was true, no doubt - but we can't pretend it would be just because we want it to be.

[ReignOnU]

Crowes, it's like you have zero ability to grasp the various socioeconomic and governmental factors. What has our government done efficiently that makes you think could successfully administer our health care?

[ReignOnU]

And back to healthcare literally every other industrial country on the face of the Earth has figured it out. They all have better
or comparable outcomes and spend vastly less per capita then we do with our private healthcare.

I'd counter that saying every other country on Earth doesn't face the same set of challenges that America does, given our standing amongst world powers. And the challenges are wide-ranging, from apathetic generations to greedhead politicians to literally being THE place many non-Americans would choose to immigrate to if given the opportunity to being (whether we want to or not) the world's police force and general fund.

Sure - some other countries have some subset of those challenges, no doubt about that - but no other country faces all of them.

I truly wish I could say that I believe gov't run healthcare would be the best option. I wish that was true, no doubt - but we can't pretend it would be just because we want it to be.

WTF... who is this and why are you using logic in this thread?

[GeorgesGoons]

And back to healthcare literally every other industrial country on the face of the Earth has figured it out. They all have better
or comparable outcomes and spend vastly less per capita then we do with our private healthcare.

I'd counter that saying every other country on Earth doesn't face the same set of challenges that America does, given our standing amongst world powers. And the challenges are wide-ranging, from apathetic generations to greedhead politicians to literally being THE place many non-Americans would choose to immigrate to if given the opportunity to being (whether we want to or not) the world's police force and general fund.

Sure - some other countries have some subset of those challenges, no doubt about that - but no other country faces all of them.

I truly wish I could say that I believe gov't run healthcare would be the best option. I wish that was true, no doubt - but we can't pretend it would be just because we want it to be.

WTF... who is this and why are you using logic in this thread?

[Crowes]

I like how Crowes can call me out for "simpleton bullcrap" and no "critical thinking" while he still naively believes that the Democrat party is looking out for his best interests and can turn things around for us hard working Americans.

That's adorable, pal.

Bless ur heart buddy I'm sorry you can't grasp what I'm trying to say.......I absolutely do not think the Democratic party establishment is going to save us or looking out for my best interest. There u go again over simplifying an argument to suit you. i live in reality and not a fairly tale land of good thoughts will have the change I want to see in the long term.

[shel311]

i live in reality and not a fairly tale land of good thoughts

Imagine calling my take that all politicians are out for themselves and not here to help us regular folks out "good thoughts"


I have no idea what you think you're reading right now. Or what you're saying for that matter as you're contradicting yourself with every post, then responding to me completely bashing all thoughts of politics and saying I live in a fairy tale land of good thoughts.

What is going on right now?

[Crowes]

And back to healthcare literally every other industrial country on the face of the Earth has figured it out. They all have better
or comparable outcomes and spend vastly less per capita then we do with our private healthcare.

I'd counter that saying every other country on Earth doesn't face the same set of challenges that America does, given our standing amongst world powers. And the challenges are wide-ranging, from apathetic generations to greedhead politicians to literally being THE place many non-Americans would choose to immigrate to if given the opportunity to being (whether we want to or not) the world's police force and general fund.

Sure - some other countries have some subset of those challenges, no doubt about that - but no other country faces all of them.

I truly wish I could say that I believe gov't run healthcare would be the best option. I wish that was true, no doubt - but we can't pretend it would be just because we want it to be.

WTF... who is this and why are you using logic in this thread?

Who is saying we could have government run healthcare if it started tomorrow with the current environment?

[ReignOnU]

And back to healthcare literally every other industrial country on the face of the Earth has figured it out. They all have better
or comparable outcomes and spend vastly less per capita then we do with our private healthcare.

I'd counter that saying every other country on Earth doesn't face the same set of challenges that America does, given our standing amongst world powers. And the challenges are wide-ranging, from apathetic generations to greedhead politicians to literally being THE place many non-Americans would choose to immigrate to if given the opportunity to being (whether we want to or not) the world's police force and general fund.

Sure - some other countries have some subset of those challenges, no doubt about that - but no other country faces all of them.

I truly wish I could say that I believe gov't run healthcare would be the best option. I wish that was true, no doubt - but we can't pretend it would be just because we want it to be.

WTF... who is this and why are you using logic in this thread?

Who is saying we could have government run healthcare if it started tomorrow with the current environment?

No one.

[Crowes]

i live in reality and not a fairly tale land of good thoughts

Imagine calling my take that all politicians are out for themselves and not here to help us regular folks out "good thoughts"


I have no idea what you think you're reading right now. Or what you're saying for that matter as you're contradicting yourself with every post, then responding to me completely bashing all thoughts of politics and saying I live in a fairy tale land of good thoughts.

What is going on right now?

Please explain how I am contradicting myself other then you using it as an excuse to gaslight.....

[GeorgesGoons]

And back to healthcare literally every other industrial country on the face of the Earth has figured it out. They all have better
or comparable outcomes and spend vastly less per capita then we do with our private healthcare.

I'd counter that saying every other country on Earth doesn't face the same set of challenges that America does, given our standing amongst world powers. And the challenges are wide-ranging, from apathetic generations to greedhead politicians to literally being THE place many non-Americans would choose to immigrate to if given the opportunity to being (whether we want to or not) the world's police force and general fund.

Sure - some other countries have some subset of those challenges, no doubt about that - but no other country faces all of them.

I truly wish I could say that I believe gov't run healthcare would be the best option. I wish that was true, no doubt - but we can't pretend it would be just because we want it to be.

WTF... who is this and why are you using logic in this thread?

Who is saying we could have government run healthcare if it started tomorrow with the current environment?

We couldn't have government run healthcare 2 years ago or 6 years ago, who cares about the current environment. Government run healthcare (or anything really) is inadequate and people will die because of it. If you really don't think so, just research anything regarding the VA. Hell, read about their suicide prevention hotline and the flaws there.

[Crowes]

And back to healthcare literally every other industrial country on the face of the Earth has figured it out. They all have better
or comparable outcomes and spend vastly less per capita then we do with our private healthcare.

I'd counter that saying every other country on Earth doesn't face the same set of challenges that America does, given our standing amongst world powers. And the challenges are wide-ranging, from apathetic generations to greedhead politicians to literally being THE place many non-Americans would choose to immigrate to if given the opportunity to being (whether we want to or not) the world's police force and general fund.

Sure - some other countries have some subset of those challenges, no doubt about that - but no other country faces all of them.

I truly wish I could say that I believe gov't run healthcare would be the best option. I wish that was true, no doubt - but we can't pretend it would be just because we want it to be.

WTF... who is this and why are you using logic in this thread?

Who is saying we could have government run healthcare if it started tomorrow with the current environment?

We couldn't have government run healthcare 2 years ago or 6 years ago, who cares about the current environment. Government run healthcare (or anything really) is inadequate and people will die because of it. If you really don't think so, just research anything regarding the VA. Hell, read about their suicide prevention hotline and the flaws there.

Anything will have flaws I don't think it's perfect by any means. The current environment is what is causing the issues with the VA so it's very important imo.

[jeheinz72]

And back to healthcare literally every other industrial country on the face of the Earth has figured it out. They all have better
or comparable outcomes and spend vastly less per capita then we do with our private healthcare.

I'd counter that saying every other country on Earth doesn't face the same set of challenges that America does, given our standing amongst world powers. And the challenges are wide-ranging, from apathetic generations to greedhead politicians to literally being THE place many non-Americans would choose to immigrate to if given the opportunity to being (whether we want to or not) the world's police force and general fund.

Sure - some other countries have some subset of those challenges, no doubt about that - but no other country faces all of them.

I truly wish I could say that I believe gov't run healthcare would be the best option. I wish that was true, no doubt - but we can't pretend it would be just because we want it to be.

WTF... who is this and why are you using logic in this thread?

Who is saying we could have government run healthcare if it started tomorrow with the current environment?

No one with a brain.

And no one with a brain should also think it'd work X years from now. If that was true, we'd have started it X years ago.

I think gen pop isn't against it because they don't want it (aside from those that profit immensely from it's lack of existence), but instead are against it because they know it would just be another bureaucratic shitshow. It's not like the list of well-run government programs/entities is a long one you know

[wdoupis]

I am a pretty progressive guy and lean towards the left in most cases and this Crowes fella has finally helped me see why a lot of people can’t stand us lol. Give those fingers a break buddy, this is a train wreck.

[GeorgesGoons]

We couldn't have government run healthcare 2 years ago or 6 years ago, who cares about the current environment. Government run healthcare (or anything really) is inadequate and people will die because of it. If you really don't think so, just research anything regarding the VA. Hell, read about their suicide prevention hotline and the flaws there.

Anything will have flaws I don't think it's perfect by any means. The current environment is what is causing the issues with the VA so it's very important imo.

What current environment? The problem with the VA has been going on for a very long time, not just because the news started to cover it in the past 5-8 years. My uncle, who lost his leg in Vietnam, has gone there since returning home in '68 and it's never more than just an adequate service at best as he says. I don't think his experience is just unique to him either after hearing of all the stories in the news over the past decade. So why do you think if the government can't figure out the VA, who supports a vast minority of our population, will be able to figure out healthcare for 320M people

[Crowes]

I am a pretty progressive guy and lean towards the left in most cases and this Crowes fella has finally helped me see why a lot of people can’t stand us lol. Give those fingers a break buddy, this is a train wreck.

You are more then welcome to not partake fella. Trainwrecks are the name of game buddy on an internet message boards arent they?

[dakshdar]

George - you are right. We couldn't take a current system like the VA which is underfunded and lacks sufficient resources and expect to expand it to handle the healthcare of millions of Americans.

Speaking in broad strokes:

Incremental change would be the only approach to move to a system that more broadly covers healthcare in the country. People with means and money are going to want to keep their healthcare - I'm not sure there is anything wrong with that. However, if we devoted sufficient resources to where a system like the VA functioned properly, you could expand that model to individuals that cannot acquire reasonable healthcare through employment and other means. Yes - reasonably speaking they may see longer wait times for services than people that maintain their own healthcare/receive it through work, but it would be a start. They'd also have better access to preventative healthcare as well which can help avoid major health issues.

Yes, you need to have "good" people running that system that are not making decisions based on personal gain. The system would clearly not be "for profit" so decision making won't be based on optimizing profits and making more money for stockholders or CEOs. I don't see how you can have anyone who is elected tied into that system. But there are certainly "good" people out there that work in social and medical services because they want to help people.

Maybe you need to incentivize doctors and medical professionals to want to work in that system. Maybe doctors are offered pay-off of their medical school loans in exchange for 5 years of service/residency. There are already professionals in hundreds of fields that go to work for the federal government instead of working in the private sector where pay is generally more lucrative.

The country wastes vast amounts of money on worthless things. Diverting just a small amount of that to fix the VA model and expand should be incredibly simple. Overall, though, it doesn't seem like something the general public cares about because the vast majority of folks already have insurance so this is a "not my problem" thing.

Anyway, I'd like to think if we really wanted to make it work, we'd figure out how to. But, I don't think enough people care to enact change in this case.

[Crowes]

I'd be more then happy to trade complete financial ruin that's a very real possibility with my current healthcare plan and be on a waitlist to have my hurting feet or any other non life threating issue taken care of.

[Crowes]

Crowes, it's like you have zero ability to grasp the various socioeconomic and governmental factors. What has our government done efficiently that makes you think could successfully administer our health care?

I do grasp all of them. Why can't you grasp that I'm advocating for a overhaul of our government? I'm not saying to taking the current government and implementing the changes to say healthcare which would be total catastrophe waiting to happen.

[GeorgesGoons]

I'd be more then happy to trade complete financial ruin that's a very real possibility with my current healthcare plan and be on a waitlist to have my hurting feet or any other non life threating issue taken care of.

Like I said. Ignorance must be bliss.

If you think it just stops at a hang nail and it doesn't cross over to more life threatening illnesses/injuries with the ineptness of government ran (anything) healthcare, please pass what you are smoking because I definitely want some.

[Crowes]

I'd be more then happy to trade complete financial ruin that's a very real possibility with my current healthcare plan and be on a waitlist to have my hurting feet or any other non life threating issue taken care of.

Like I said. Ignorance must be bliss.

If you think it just stops at a hang nail and it doesn't cross over to more life threatening illnesses/injuries with the ineptness of government ran (anything) healthcare, please pass what you are smoking because I definitely want some.

Please provide the evidence of the rampant people dying in the streets due to government healthcare in other countries that have a system that would be similar to what a system would be like in this country?

I have a feeling you're probably referring to near communist or communist countries around the world that have government run healthcare. IE venezuel or other failed states.