GeorgesGoons wrote:
I'd venture to say 90% or more of these questionable shootings would never have happened had the possible criminal complied with officers.
this is 100% accurate and 100% not relevant.
a police officers job is to deal with criminals. he's trained to do so.
of course if everyone was a good law abiding boy we'd have less incidents. that's pretty obvious. but some people make mistakes, some big, some small... but typically (not always) they don't deserve to lose their lives over it
GeorgesGoons wrote:
I'd venture to say 90% or more of these questionable shootings would never have happened had the possible criminal complied with officers.
this is 100% accurate and 100% not relevant.
a police officers job is to deal with criminals. he's trained to do so.
of course if everyone was a good law abiding boy we'd have less incidents. that's pretty obvious. but some people make mistakes, some big, some small... but typically (not always) they don't deserve to lose their lives over it
It's 100% relevant. Had he complied with the officers right away he wouldn't have been tased/tackled/eventually shot and unfortunately killed. It starts escalating the use of force that some officers "have to" resort to.
Crowes wrote: The man had two cops on tope of him he probably couldn't breath and was pain so him moving his arm doesn't seal the deal on deadly force being used for me. If I couldn't breath and was in pain I'd probably be squirming too.
The issue is you're assuming these things, while I'm saying, "hey, let's wait and see"...you simply don't know whether he was going for his gun or whether he could have got his hand in his pocket and either pulled out the gun or shot with it in his pocket. I don't know that, you don't know that.
Crowes wrote:but what i see from the video and articles that two cops got to aggressive and tried to subdue the man and while struggling with him the one cop felt gun and the other cop overreacted killing the man. Which to me makes them responsible to killing a person.
Crowes wrote: The man had two cops on tope of him he probably couldn't breath and was pain so him moving his arm doesn't seal the deal on deadly force being used for me. If I couldn't breath and was in pain I'd probably be squirming too.
The issue is you're assuming these things, while I'm saying, "hey, let's wait and see"...you simply don't know whether he was going for his gun or whether he could have got his hand in his pocket and either pulled out the gun or shot with it in his pocket. I don't know that, you don't know that.
Crowes wrote:but what i see from the video and articles that two cops got to aggressive and tried to subdue the man and while struggling with him the one cop felt gun and the other cop overreacted killing the man. Which to me makes them responsible to killing a person.
Fwiw, that's not murder.
Nope he didn't pul it out the video clearly shows the officer go inside his pocket and pull out a gun as he lay there dieing. Could be have been going for it maybe but with two cops on him I doubt it
Crowes wrote:Could be have been going for it maybe but with two cops on him I doubt it
So coming in and just immediately declaring the 2 cops murderers, you're basically admitting that was a bit overkill, or you're backtracking now to you're not quite as sure.
Again, no need to rush to judgment, just wait and let's see all the facts as they play out.
We can see the facts play out, I am all for that, I just feel like it could have been handled without a death. I am no cop hater but I am confused on one thing.........is it protocol to hold a gun to a mans head why not aim it someplace else? I don't know we need to see what happened before the ruckus but they seemed a bit aggressive and quick to pull that trigger.
Crowes wrote:Could be have been going for it maybe but with two cops on him I doubt it
So coming in and just immediately declaring the 2 cops murderers, you're basically admitting that was a bit overkill, or you're backtracking now to you're not quite as sure.
Again, no need to rush to judgment, just wait and let's see all the facts as they play out.
No im just acknowledging that anything is possible like you keep trying to point out but using the information we have this looks like cops showed up got two frisky and then killed someone..... Call it murder call it what you want but to me its cops responsibility to resolve a situation as peacefully as possible and these guys didn't seem to have any intention of doing that and someone died.
Not to mention with what happened in Minnesota. It just keeps getting clearer and clearer that we have problem with how we train police to deal with people and how that translates to how they deal with people of color.
Crowes wrote:The guys gun was never pulled out on the cops and both cops were on top on him with one right at the guys mid section where the gun was. And as you can clearly see the gun was still in this guys pocket after they killed him. Guy was murdered.
Honest question, if the guy was indeed trying to get his gun(and the video does show that is entirely plausible), are the cops supposed to wait to see if he does get the gun, wait to see what he plans to do with the gun, wait til he points it at them, then shoot?
I don't think you can or should take a chance with your life, as a cop or citizen, if a guy is trying to get his hand in his pocket to get a gun, especially under those circumstances of resisting, being tased, waving a gun at someone which prompted the call.
Then don't be a freaking cop is my opinion. A cops job in my opinion should be defusing situations and if two grown men would are/should be trained how to subdue people cant keep this guy who is on the ground from getting to his gun then they can't do their job. When you decide to be a cop this is the shit you sign up to deal with your job requires you to go beyond what a normal citizen is expected to do when they feel their life is in danger. Killing someone should be the absolute last resort not at the slightest could be maybe threat.
You have a knack for showing up every month or so and posting some of the dumbest shit I've ever read.
I find it humorous that all that the public ever sees is the aftermath. The story is always the same, we don't hear/see what led up to the situation. I'm not saying that I support the actions of any of these examples, but we never get the full story and a rush to judgement is spewed onto social media. A few bad apples always ruin the bunch, but the racial bias is force fed to the public.
Crowes wrote:The guys gun was never pulled out on the cops and both cops were on top on him with one right at the guys mid section where the gun was. And as you can clearly see the gun was still in this guys pocket after they killed him. Guy was murdered.
Honest question, if the guy was indeed trying to get his gun(and the video does show that is entirely plausible), are the cops supposed to wait to see if he does get the gun, wait to see what he plans to do with the gun, wait til he points it at them, then shoot?
I don't think you can or should take a chance with your life, as a cop or citizen, if a guy is trying to get his hand in his pocket to get a gun, especially under those circumstances of resisting, being tased, waving a gun at someone which prompted the call.
Then don't be a freaking cop is my opinion. A cops job in my opinion should be defusing situations and if two grown men would are/should be trained how to subdue people cant keep this guy who is on the ground from getting to his gun then they can't do their job. When you decide to be a cop this is the shit you sign up to deal with your job requires you to go beyond what a normal citizen is expected to do when they feel their life is in danger. Killing someone should be the absolute last resort not at the slightest could be maybe threat.
You have a knack for showing up every month or so and posting some of the dumbest shit I've ever read.
DRiccio21 wrote:i haven't read all of crowes posts cause i try to stay away from these types of debate but i actually agree with him on that last post 100%
DRiccio21 wrote:i haven't read all of crowes posts cause i try to stay away from these types of debate but i actually agree with him on that last post 100%
It is horrible that anybody loses their life in a situation like this. The bottom line is if he hadn't committed any crimes, he in all likelihood would not have lost his life. Without knowing more than the basics of what has been reported, I know he broke at least 3 laws. Brandishing a firearm, resisting arrest and possession of a firearm. The guy had a felony conviction and was a registered sexual predator. He wasn't allowed to own any kind of firearm.
OracleHCR wrote:It is horrible that anybody loses their life in a situation like this. The bottom line is if he hadn't committed any crimes, he in all likelihood would not have lost his life. Without knowing more than the basics of what has been reported, I know he broke at least 3 laws. Brandishing a firearm, resisting arrest and possession of a firearm. The guy had a felony conviction and was a registered sexual predator. He wasn't allowed to own any kind of firearm.
police officers jobs are to literally deal with EXACTLY those types of people
its a very simplistic thing to say 'well if he wasn't committing crimes'
thats like saying if a doctor killed someone in surgery 'well if he didn't smoke and have a tumor i had to remove i wouldn't have killed him'
all the things you're saying are true, none of it is relevant to using deadly force
