I can understand the other trades. Might not like them, but understood them.
Simmons was locked in until 2020. He's got the highest dWAR of any SS before age 25 in MLB HISTORY. He hit 17 HR last year and had stats comparable to the average SS, and was only going to get better. His contract was insanely friendly.
This trade made no sense and quite frankly it's upset a lot of the fanbase, myself included, to the point that there may be a lot of empty seats when the new stadium opens up in 2017.
S14: N Texas 7-1
S15: Wake 8-5
S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
S22: Ohio 8-5
S23: ECU 12-2
S24-26: Kentucky 8-5, 5-7, 5-7
Career: 102-61
Braves trying to stock pile young arms. I get it. Sucks to lose the best defensive SS but he is a .250 hitter. No speed, no power. Still holding out hope for 2017.
nick wrote:ya it was definitely a bad trade but they did get LA's best prospect.
Key word
You gave up the most dominant defensive player in MLB history, at the most important defensive position in baseball, on contract that was well below market value, for a prospect.
SB Nation said it best today:
Through age 25, defensive wins above replacement
Ozzie Smith, 473 games played, 7.6 dWAR
Andrelton Simmons, 499 games played, 15.2 dWAR
Exactly twice as valuable defensively as the greatest defensive shortstop in history through his first 25 years on Earth. That doesn't mean he's going to be an inner-circle Hall of Famer like Ozzie. Doesn't mean he's just going to get better and better. It just means that he's rare. Very rare.
It's not like he helped the Braves win the NL East this year. He's not magic or anything, so don't get carried away. He's just the best defender of his generation at the most important defensive position in baseball. No big deal.
S14: N Texas 7-1
S15: Wake 8-5
S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
S22: Ohio 8-5
S23: ECU 12-2
S24-26: Kentucky 8-5, 5-7, 5-7
Career: 102-61
The problem is, he was looking fairly one dimensional and you always have to consider whether a one dimensional player is really as valuable has his stats in that one dimension are.
He didn't hit 17 home runs last year, he hit 17 HRs in 2013. He hit 11 HRs in almost 300 games since that year. HRs aren't everything though. But he's also the proud owner of a .300 OBP and a .350'ish SLG for the last three seasons (approximately) and has stolen only an average of 5 bases a year.
In 2015 he was (out of SS with enough AB to qualify for stat ranking):
17th out of 19 in SLG
13th out of 19 in OPS
28th out of 37 in HR
13th out of 19 in RC/27
17th out of 19 in AB/HR
It could be very early and he could change it up, but he's had three full seasons and the trend looks like he'll be a below average hitter.
If I was a Braves fan I doubt I'd be happy, but objectively speaking, if they think they just got two of their five starting pitchers for 2017/18 through 2022 (depending on when they think those guys hit the bigs), it would be hard to argue with the trade. Time will tell.
dakshdar wrote:The problem is, he was looking fairly one dimensional and you always have to consider whether a one dimensional player is really as valuable has his stats in that one dimension are.
He didn't hit 17 home runs last year, he hit 17 HRs in 2013. He hit 11 HRs in almost 300 games since that year. HRs aren't everything though. But he's also the proud owner of a .300 OBP and a .350'ish SLG for the last three seasons (approximately) and has stolen only an average of 5 bases a year.
In 2015 he was (out of SS with enough AB to qualify for stat ranking):
17th out of 19 in SLG
13th out of 19 in OPS
28th out of 37 in HR
13th out of 19 in RC/27
17th out of 19 in AB/HR
It could be very early and he could change it up, but he's had three full seasons and the trend looks like he'll be a below average hitter.
If I was a Braves fan I doubt I'd be happy, but objectively speaking, if they think they just got two of their five starting pitchers for 2017/18 through 2022 (depending on when they think those guys hit the bigs), it would be hard to argue with the trade. Time will tell.
Those are similar numbers to Omar Vizquel, offensively. And better defensive numbers.
S14: N Texas 7-1
S15: Wake 8-5
S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
S22: Ohio 8-5
S23: ECU 12-2
S24-26: Kentucky 8-5, 5-7, 5-7
Career: 102-61
nick wrote:Simmons had a .321 OBP this yr. thats perfectly fine with the historically elite D he brings at a D 1st position.
Braves did it because their time table is definitely 3-5 yrs. Better to get the most out fo AS now because he has a bad stretch and u get nothing
But again, could've held onto him, and still gotten a great haul for him later on. They got PROSPECTS. Not guys that are ready to come up. He was really the only reason to watch the Braves lately. Now.....it's Freeman and Teheran, and then not a damn thing.
S14: N Texas 7-1
S15: Wake 8-5
S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
S22: Ohio 8-5
S23: ECU 12-2
S24-26: Kentucky 8-5, 5-7, 5-7
Career: 102-61
So if he's similar to Omar Vizquel that means...what exactly? Vizquel played for six teams in his career, and his JAWS and WAR don't indicate he'll be a HoFer..
I probably never even heard of this dude so I certainly don't have any thoughts on this trade. But I looked up Omar Vizquel, knowing he's considered one of the best defensive SS ever. In 24 seasons, he had total dWAR of 28.2.
In 4 seasons, this Simmons dude has a dWAR of 15.2.
nick wrote:the first highlight alone is better than that snag
The only thing that sucks for you is that you are not old enough to see Ozzie make the impossible look routine on a daily basis. Ozzie is a HOF'er because of his defensive wizardry alone. Name another HOF'er with a career .250ish average and absolutely zero power. He was inducted because of his defensive prowess and nothing else.
nick wrote:the first highlight alone is better than that snag
The only thing that sucks for you is that you are not old enough to see Ozzie make the impossible look routine on a daily basis. Ozzie is a HOF'er because of his defensive wizardry alone. Name another HOF'er with a career .250ish average and absolutely zero power. He was inducted because of his defensive prowess and nothing else.
George, I remember Smith. And Simba is better. Again, please see Stat above where he has twice the dWAR at his age than Smith had.
Vizquel for me is a HOF, and for many others.
S14: N Texas 7-1
S15: Wake 8-5
S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
S22: Ohio 8-5
S23: ECU 12-2
S24-26: Kentucky 8-5, 5-7, 5-7
Career: 102-61
mlb voting is so flawed. Kershaw should of won. Theres a closer argument with Price/Keuchel (I think Price should of won) but Kershaw is so elite and all voters care about is Ws. a 8.6 WAR to 7.3 and he loses. All the other numbers other than WL and ERA favor Kershaw too.
