NFL Thread

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shel311
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by shel311 »

jsence2 wrote:
shel311 wrote:
packsyd2284 wrote:What's truly
Being overlooked here is, how awful was Andrew Luck Sunday and on the road for most of all this season.
He was definitely bad Sunday, but he should get like 99% of the credit just for getting a team that mediocre to the AFC CG.

Also, solely on stats, his was only a little worse on the road in the regular season.

That Colts team is not very good, he's the only reason they had a winning record. Can't fault him for how bad their defense played and how poorly they ran the ball most of the year.
Agreed.

There's guys like Rodgers and Luck who are THE reason their teams win, and their teams can't overcome subpar performances by those 2.

Then there good teams with good QBs like Russell WIlson who is one of the reasons why his teams win but not THE reason, and his team can overcome a subpar, to put it nicely, performance.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by nick »

Rodgers is the sole reason they win!?! Lacy, Nelson, Cobb, you guys, nothing, all Rodgers
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Re: NFL Thread

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nick wrote:Rodgers is the sole reason they win!?! Lacy, Nelson, Cobb, you guys, nothing, all Rodgers
Nelson and Cobb aren't as good as their numbers, their numbers are inflated due to, ya know, playing with the greatest QB ever.

They're solid WRs, but not as good as their numbers suggest.

Hell, look at their schedule this year, not sure what more proof you need. It's basically Rodgers plays great they win, and in all of their losses he was bad, pretty uncanny almost. If they were as good as you claim outside of Rodgers, you'd think that wouldn't be as lopsided as it is.

You can also look at last Sunday, Rodgers doesn't play well but Wilson was horrible...and Seattle still won.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by DRiccio21 »

shel311 wrote: Nelson and Cobb aren't as good as their numbers, their numbers are inflated due to, ya know, playing with the greatest QB ever.

They're solid WRs, but not as good as their numbers suggest.
you can make this argument for any WR not named like Calvin Johnson or any other complete physical freak (Moss, TO, etc)

most QB's make the WR. i've watched Ben do it for years. he makes so many shitbums look like stars
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by nick »

Ben is probably the most underrated QB in the NFL
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by shel311 »

DRiccio21 wrote:
shel311 wrote: Nelson and Cobb aren't as good as their numbers, their numbers are inflated due to, ya know, playing with the greatest QB ever.

They're solid WRs, but not as good as their numbers suggest.
you can make this argument for any WR not named like Calvin Johnson or any other complete physical freak (Moss, TO, etc)

most QB's make the WR. i've watched Ben do it for years. he makes so many shitbums look like stars
Agreed. No one talked about Big Ben this year, and he was amazing.

I truly wonder how good Cobb and Nelson are. Not saying they're not good, but there's just no way to know, it's too skewed from playing with Rodgers.

I forgot where I saw it/heard it, but there was a great breakdown that showed Jordy Nelson in games without Rodgers, and he was basically Brian Hartline of 2012, or something along those lines.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

shel311 wrote:Nelson and Cobb aren't as good as their numbers, their numbers are inflated due to, ya know, playing with the greatest QB ever
Whoa! Pump the brakes.
While Rodgers is in the elite class, not sure I would say he is the greatest ever.
But the elite QB's do make avg WR's better than an avg QB would make them.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

shel311 wrote:
DRiccio21 wrote:
shel311 wrote: Nelson and Cobb aren't as good as their numbers, their numbers are inflated due to, ya know, playing with the greatest QB ever.

They're solid WRs, but not as good as their numbers suggest.
you can make this argument for any WR not named like Calvin Johnson or any other complete physical freak (Moss, TO, etc)

most QB's make the WR. i've watched Ben do it for years. he makes so many shitbums look like stars
Agreed. No one talked about Big Ben this year, and he was amazing.

I truly wonder how good Cobb and Nelson are. Not saying they're not good, but there's just no way to know, it's too skewed from playing with Rodgers.

I forgot where I saw it/heard it, but there was a great breakdown that showed Jordy Nelson in games without Rodgers, and he was basically Brian Hartline of 2012, or something along those lines.

I hate Pittsburgh but I agree with you guys about Roethlisberger.
He is underrated.
And for his size, it truly is amazing how elusive he is.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by shel311 »

The_Niddler wrote:
shel311 wrote:Nelson and Cobb aren't as good as their numbers, their numbers are inflated due to, ya know, playing with the greatest QB ever
Whoa! Pump the brakes.
While Rodgers is in the elite class, not sure I would say he is the greatest ever.
But the elite QB's do make avg WR's better than an avg QB would make them.
Statistically speaking, no one has come very close to playing at as high of a level as he has for as long as he has, though he obviously hasn't done it for 15 years. The only argument against him is longevity, you can't argue his level of play, it's so far above everyone else.

The easist stat I can recall, TD:INT ratio, they showed the top 5, and 2 through 5 had like Peyton/Brady?Montana all somewhere between 2.2 and 2.5 maybe. Rodgers was in the 4s, not 2nd wasn't even close.

TD% - Best ever in the modern era
INT% - Best ever
YPA - Best ever in the modern era

Like I said, he's clearly ahead of the Bradys/Mannings/Montanas, other than longevity.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

What I don't get with the entire deflated football thing, why not eliminate the possibility of this and just have footballs that get used by both teams?

Meaning, a ball will stay out there until a ref finds a reason to chuck it. The one that was just punted could be the one that the offense now uses on the next play.
I don't get it.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by packsyd2284 »

jsence2 wrote:
packsyd2284 wrote:Seeit I know you love to disagree with every little thing I post but your are incorrect on the refs obligation to notice deflated footballs. I've personally coached in games where an umpire or back judge will throw a ball off and let us know if it isn't inflated we will be penalized if found again. It's not that hard.

Yeah, the guy who worked in the NFL, dealt with game balls, etc doesn't know what he's talking about. He's never coached HS football!
He is still allowed to be incorrect about something or I am not allowed to have an opinion? If they are deflated enough to be considered "cheating" you can notice it right away. Our balls expert says you can't tell the difference then he and I both agree that it really is a non issue. Thanks for chiming in tho guy.

I did learn one thing from seeit today, I figured the 12 game balls included kicking balls because at least at my level of coaching the ball that is considered "the game ball" will be the one used in the kicking game etc.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by trendon »

jsence2 wrote:
packsyd2284 wrote:Seeit I know you love to disagree with every little thing I post but your are incorrect on the refs obligation to notice deflated footballs. I've personally coached in games where an umpire or back judge will throw a ball off and let us know if it isn't inflated we will be penalized if found again. It's not that hard.

Yeah, the guy who worked in the NFL, dealt with game balls, etc doesn't know what he's talking about. He's never coached HS football!
I actually fight with high school football coaches all of the time. You know the difference between my knowledge of football and that of a high school football coach? Nothing. I actually probably know more since I actually, like, watch all sorts of football. Once you get past high school, coaches seem to get a little bit more "worldly" if you will ... high school? Holy fuck. That isn't an indictment on Pat in any way, just saying.

That said, you know what I have taken away from all of this? Football fans are fucking morons. Here is what happened: the Patriots supplied the footballs as is, the refs said, "OK," and everything proceeded as normal until the Colts' version of Culp got a hold of it and was like, "wait a second!" That's it.

With that, the only way the Patriots are going to be held accountable for this is if the NFL finds - and NFL films was bragging about their camera load for the divisional games so imagine what they had for the championship games - actually fucking see someone on the Patriots manipulating eleven balls. Considering they caught the Panthers and Vikings warming up the balls a few weeks ago, it shouldn't be hard to find some ass running around the Patriots sideline with eleven different balls over ninety minutes.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by packsyd2284 »

trendon wrote:
jsence2 wrote:
packsyd2284 wrote:Seeit I know you love to disagree with every little thing I post but your are incorrect on the refs obligation to notice deflated footballs. I've personally coached in games where an umpire or back judge will throw a ball off and let us know if it isn't inflated we will be penalized if found again. It's not that hard.

Yeah, the guy who worked in the NFL, dealt with game balls, etc doesn't know what he's talking about. He's never coached HS football!
I actually fight with high school football coaches all of the time. You know the difference between my knowledge of football and that of a high school football coach? Nothing. I actually probably know more since I actually, like, watch all sorts of football. Once you get past high school, coaches seem to get a little bit more "worldly" if you will ... high school? Holy fuck. That isn't an indictment on Pat in any way, just saying.
This is just so ridiculous. One of the biggest differences in coaching at a higher level is who do you know, a lot of coaches are former players or played at least some sort of college football and were GA's etc. This is such a dumb ass statement by you it's incredible.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by trendon »

packsyd2284 wrote:
trendon wrote:
jsence2 wrote:
packsyd2284 wrote:Seeit I know you love to disagree with every little thing I post but your are incorrect on the refs obligation to notice deflated footballs. I've personally coached in games where an umpire or back judge will throw a ball off and let us know if it isn't inflated we will be penalized if found again. It's not that hard.

Yeah, the guy who worked in the NFL, dealt with game balls, etc doesn't know what he's talking about. He's never coached HS football!
I actually fight with high school football coaches all of the time. You know the difference between my knowledge of football and that of a high school football coach? Nothing. I actually probably know more since I actually, like, watch all sorts of football. Once you get past high school, coaches seem to get a little bit more "worldly" if you will ... high school? Holy fuck. That isn't an indictment on Pat in any way, just saying.
This is just so ridiculous. One of the biggest differences in coaching at a higher level is who do you know, a lot of coaches are former players or played at least some sort of college football and were GA's etc. This is such a dumb ass statement by you it's incredible.
The upward mobility in both of our coaching careers seems to be on the same arc, though. And I know nobody!
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by packsyd2284 »

trendon wrote:
packsyd2284 wrote:
trendon wrote:
jsence2 wrote:
packsyd2284 wrote:Seeit I know you love to disagree with every little thing I post but your are incorrect on the refs obligation to notice deflated footballs. I've personally coached in games where an umpire or back judge will throw a ball off and let us know if it isn't inflated we will be penalized if found again. It's not that hard.

Yeah, the guy who worked in the NFL, dealt with game balls, etc doesn't know what he's talking about. He's never coached HS football!
I actually fight with high school football coaches all of the time. You know the difference between my knowledge of football and that of a high school football coach? Nothing. I actually probably know more since I actually, like, watch all sorts of football. Once you get past high school, coaches seem to get a little bit more "worldly" if you will ... high school? Holy fuck. That isn't an indictment on Pat in any way, just saying.
This is just so ridiculous. One of the biggest differences in coaching at a higher level is who do you know, a lot of coaches are former players or played at least some sort of college football and were GA's etc. This is such a dumb ass statement by you it's incredible.
The upward mobility in both of our coaching careers seems to be on the same arc, though. And I know nobody!
You prob watch more football across all spectrums but some coaches I know prob watch 3 times the amount of football you do if you want to include film etc.....but hey you're more worldly I guess........ :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Seeitsaveit13 »

packsyd2284 wrote:
jsence2 wrote:
packsyd2284 wrote:Seeit I know you love to disagree with every little thing I post but your are incorrect on the refs obligation to notice deflated footballs. I've personally coached in games where an umpire or back judge will throw a ball off and let us know if it isn't inflated we will be penalized if found again. It's not that hard.

Yeah, the guy who worked in the NFL, dealt with game balls, etc doesn't know what he's talking about. He's never coached HS football!
He is still allowed to be incorrect about something or I am not allowed to have an opinion? If they are deflated enough to be considered "cheating" you can notice it right away. Our balls expert says you can't tell the difference then he and I both agree that it really is a non issue. Thanks for chiming in tho guy.

I did learn one thing from seeit today, I figured the 12 game balls included kicking balls because at least at my level of coaching the ball that is considered "the game ball" will be the one used in the kicking game etc.
Yea here's how the balls work (different from HS and College) in case you care to see the differences.

Each team supplies 12 balls (minimum) to the Refs before the game
-Most teams supply a "GAME" bag of 12 balls, and a "GAME BACKUP" bag of 12 more balls.
-The backups are only used if it's super shitty weather and they get ruined, there are a lot of turnovers (other team keeps them), or a ton somehow end up in the stands (blame your qb)

-The balls have been broken in according to that teams standards (usually starting QB preference) (This is the part that I did for Cleveland)
-The balls must be at 13 psi when delivered (there is a 12.5/13.5 margin of error)
-The refs then inspect the balls for pressure and texture (can't be dripping with gorilla grip etc)
-The ref initials or stamps or sharpies the ball with his initials or mark, so that at any given point in the game, the refs can tell if its a good ball, or a randomly thrown in ball
-The ref gives the balls to the ball coordinator (I forget the title for sure, basically the head ball boy) shortly before the game.
-The head ball boy is an employee of the home team, but is "impartial". He brings both bags out to the field (usually stored near the replay hood) and distributes the balls to all ball boys
-The home team provides ball boys unless the visiting team decides to bring some, in which case they will handle their team, however all ball boys will have balls from both teams (hence the need for 12)
-Balls get constantly rotated in and out of the game on each play, which keeps them dry from rain, field, sweat, etc, and keeps them from getting worn out (in theory)
-Team A uses Team A's balls, Team B uses Team B's balls, no overlap

Kicking Balls
-The kicking balls are completely separate from the game balls
-6 Balls are shipped in a sealed box to the stadium
-The K Ball ref (hired by home team for the season, but treated as a ref) oversees the balls, and ball preparation (he wears crimson colored crap, you'll see him near the LOS on 3rd and 4th down)
-A representative from each team meets before the game (usually 3 hours before kick or so) with the ref, and are allowed to "break in" the balls for 45 mins, under the watch of the ref (this is the part I did as well)
-There ARE rules on what you can and cannot do, but they're so cloudy, and vary so much from ref to ref, that you just kind of do what you want until you get yelled at, and then hide what you can't do but do it anyway
-Home team usually does balls 1,3,5 and away does 2,4,6
-Once the 45 mins are up, the balls are no longer touched.
-Those 6 balls (usually just 1,2 and maybe 3) are the only ones kicked during the game, and are subbed in on kicking plays and then taking right back out
-Some refs will let you kick your ball (home 1, away 2, etc), some will rotate religiously, some make no sense, and some will completely screw the visiting team
-"breaking in" the ball can honestly add about 5-7 yards onto a kick with all other things equal


Hopefully that explains the way the balls work for the pros. I know in college there aren't K balls, they just kick a ball from the bag of 12, so that's probably the part that is different for you too Pat.

Like Whit said... I know balls :oops:
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Weasel »

I disagree that 2 psi difference is barely noticeable. Id argue that if any of us had the two side by side to compare a 13 psi ball to an 11 psi ball there would be a marked difference. That shit is almost 20%!

Also, theres no chance anyone actually read that last post on balls from seeit, right?
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Whittness10 »

Weasel wrote:I disagree that 2 psi difference is barely noticeable. Id argue that if any of us had the two side by side to compare a 13 psi ball to an 11 psi ball there would be a marked difference. That shit is almost 20%!

Also, theres no chance anyone actually read that last post on balls from seeit, right?
I read it, and I bet you did too... Just admit it.
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by Weasel »

The first line was all I needed
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Re: NFL Thread

Post by cougnix »

Whittness10 wrote:
Weasel wrote:I disagree that 2 psi difference is barely noticeable. Id argue that if any of us had the two side by side to compare a 13 psi ball to an 11 psi ball there would be a marked difference. That shit is almost 20%!

Also, theres no chance anyone actually read that last post on balls from seeit, right?
I read it, and I bet you did too... Just admit it.
I read the whole thing because I've always wondered about the kicking balls. I knew there a super secret room for them but those details are interesting.

What I'm also learning about trendin is he truly believes that he knows more than anyone about everything when in fact he's just a fucking bullshitter. I will request pictures of this fabled lawyer endeavor or it really isn't and won't be happening
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