Penn St

[ReignOnU]

And as I posted Corey... what if he didn't know it was a kid? What if McQ only told him that Sandusky was fooling around in the shower? You have no idea what was said. I'm with you guys IF he knew, I'm simply the only one on here asking 'what if.' Emotionally, as slipped through earlier, I'm sure I'm more enraged than anyone else on here, short of jsence, for good reason. But I'm also not letting those emotions blur my judgement (or at least trying not to.)

With that said, some more interesting news... I was all over Spanier from the word go... and it looks like I was right to be. But now this is getting incredible:
http://mobile.pennlive.com/advpenn/db_/ ... ue#display

Quick summary... a few members of the Board of Trustees (BOT) were dragging theirfeet... the article is suggesting that some might actually be involved in this and a core of the BOT is looking to move forward and replace Garban, the current BOT chairman.

[brwnbear]

I need some help. Really, really, really want to hate Joe for this. Everytime I think of what happend I get really pissed off, specially when I think of my kids. But Fucking Reign keeps posting and now I am a little confused. Thougth about blocking him but he is my conference comish, so I would get to read about Peay this and Peay that....

- Did the stuff in the showers happen while he was a coach under Paterno? If so, I can easily hang Joe for this.
- Was Joe in charge of therapist after he retired? I know that Joe has a lot of power but was he specifically in charge?
- Was anyone in the university alerted that therapist was investigated by detectives for another case?
- Who is responsible for giving access to the teams facilities? I know Joe can ask someone to be removed but who would be responsible for issuing them?

Any help would be appreciated unless its from Reign (no offense).

[Cnasty]

All I'm saying is IF joe knew (which he fully did in my opinion), he did nowhere near enough as the "legend" he is portrayed at Penn State as people cheering for him makes me sick.


That's my plain and simple opinion. May be 100% wrong but thats how I feel in reading what I have read

Good day

[jsence2]

You do realize that even though the perception is and media wants you to believe, that what JoePa says goes on campus...

Bingo.

You might want to pull the "..." and finish my quote. It completely goes against your stance.

Not really; you just passed the buck onto others.

Like I said....if JoePa wanted him investigated, he'd have done so. If he wanted to make sure kids weren't at risk, he wouldn't have been letting him into the locker rooms.

[ReignOnU]

All I'm saying is IF joe knew (which he fully did in my opinion), he did nowhere near enough as the "legend" he is portrayed at Penn State as people cheering for him makes me sick.


That's my plain and simple opinion. May be 100% wrong but thats how I feel in reading what I have read

Good day

Definitely not 100% wrong. And IF Joe knew, you're absolutely right. As for the crowd, even trying to be objective now, I was disgusted watching that last night. In no way could I put myself in that position. Too much uncertainty.

[ReignOnU]

You do realize that even though the perception is and media wants you to believe, that what JoePa says goes on campus...

Bingo.

You might want to pull the "..." and finish my quote. It completely goes against your stance.

Not really; you just passed the buck onto others.

Like I said....if JoePa wanted him investigated, he'd have done so. If he wanted to make sure kids weren't at risk, he wouldn't have been letting him into the locker rooms.

By passing the buck, you mean detailing the chain of command? Got it. If he wanted him investigated he might have went above the chief of the police department? Like to the head of the department? Got it.

At least be responsible when posting.

[DRiccio21]

if you're the CEO of a company and something like this happens under your watch and you had ANY type of knowledge, you're gone.

there is no question about it. you simply can't represent a company, a program, a university with that hanging over you. the message it sends to the public is that of a lack of control and a leniancy for poor behavior.

i would be ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED to see JoePa on the sidelines/pressbox on saturday.

if i'm the university, you can't get rid of them fast enough if for no other reason than public perception that you won't stand for what happened.... whethere he knew or not.

how can you be the parent of a recruit signed for PSU and live with your decision knowing they'd allow this to go on and just let JoePa ride off on his own power.

[ajalves]

the fact that Jsence if preaching about coaches morality is funny

[DRiccio21]

You do realize that even though the perception is and media wants you to believe, that what JoePa says goes on campus...

Bingo.

You might want to pull the "..." and finish my quote. It completely goes against your stance.

Not really; you just passed the buck onto others.

Like I said....if JoePa wanted him investigated, he'd have done so. If he wanted to make sure kids weren't at risk, he wouldn't have been letting him into the locker rooms.

By passing the buck, you mean detailing the chain of command? Got it. If he wanted him investigated he might have went above the chief of the police department? Like to the head of the department? Got it.

At least be responsible when posting.

i almost think you're joking with some of your posts now.

stop being so academic... well x says he needs to tell y so that equals z. thats not how it works in a situation like this.

you scream and you scream and you scream louder until something is done. whether its on tv, in closed doors with all parties there, or just with the university heads. you do what it takes to make sure this never happens again while you're in control of the program.

this isn't jim tressel situation or a recruiting violation... this is multiple children being abused and having the abuser continue to come around with children under your watch. its absolutely gross.

[jsence2]

Reign, tell me this, and be objective about it....

You're a football coach, and someone tells you the saw one of your coaches molest a minor. It doesn't matter if he's 7 or 17, it's a minor. You report him to your higher ups....and then what?

Are you telling me that you would be ok with someone accused of something that heinous still being around the kids whose homes you went into, whose parents you made promises to, and whose safety you are entrusted with? If so, then I worry about your judgement.

So he's in the wrong there....and now let's say you never hear anything about the result of the "investigation"--are you telling me you would STILL be ok with him being around them when you've yet to hear anything either way? And then let's say years later you hear MORE allegations....at what point do you start to become concerned?

I refuse to blame it on sheer ignorance or sheer "not knowing", in a situation like this you are not only obligated to do what is best to protect your players, but also to make DAMN SURE that you keep abreast of what's going on.

Here at work, if I request something gets done and I don't hear anything back about the outcome, I follow up. I check with the customer, I check with the field techs, I check on the accounts. I don't just say "oh, someone else is supposed to take care of it, it'll get done". And this is for something minor. To not do that with something this agregious???

I hope that's responsible enough posting for you. I'm not being emotional, I'm being rational. There's a difference. It's irrational to simply say "he reported it, he did all he needed to" and be ok with that.

[jsence2]

the fact that Jsence if preaching about coaches morality is funny

AJ, I know you're just joking, but comparing a coach who people say is cheating to win, and a coach who is turning a blind eye to a pedophile, to quote Jules Winfield....it ain't the same ballpark, it ain't even the same fucking spot.

[brwnbear]

I am still confused. Did this happen while he was a coach at PSU or after he retired? If this happend when he was on the staff then as Dave said, its under your watch and you go down with the ship.

If it happend after he left, I dont really know what to think.

[DRiccio21]

I am still confused. Did this happen while he was a coach at PSU or after he retired? If this happend when he was on the staff then as Dave said, its under your watch and you go down with the ship.

If it happend after he left, I dont really know what to think.

i'm not positive

i think he was off the staff when the Mcquery stuff happened, but he still kept an office in the football facilities i believe and was still around the program regularly.

[jsence2]

I am still confused. Did this happen while he was a coach at PSU or after he retired? If this happend when he was on the staff then as Dave said, its under your watch and you go down with the ship.

If it happend after he left, I dont really know what to think.

If it happened after he left, you still don't let him into your locker room, wouldn't you agree?

As Reign said, what Joe Pa says, goes. He says you don't come into his locker room, that goes.

[LetsGoPeay]

The thing about Paterno only reporting it to the campus police and pursuing it no further is weird to me. He used to be the AD. He is the athletic department there. He is revered in that area in general. Why would that kind of figure apparently not use all their power in that scenario? It doesn't matter who's doing what with whom in the showers of his football program's locker rooms at his university. Everyone knows that anything going on in there outside of showering is unacceptable. Then to add to that, a GA comes to him to report something disturbing. It stands to reason to me that a GA wouldn't come to him to report something like that if it wasn't something bad. A GA isn't going to going to report on a legendary former defensive coordinator if that guy is just having relations with a wife/mistress/girlfriend/himself in the shower. It had to be something. Now how does the guy that is the de facto authority in the athletic department, suddenly only become a minor functionary who adheres to the chain of command? It just doesn't add up.

[ReignOnU]

if you're the CEO of a company and something like this happens under your watch and you had ANY type of knowledge, you're gone.

What about the HR Manager that had an employee come to them with what they saw, who then told the regional manager? Going to fire them to for doing their job?

i would be ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED to see JoePa on the sidelines/pressbox on saturday.

Why, he's not the CEO in your scenario. He's the HR Manager that did what he was supposed to do.

if i'm the university, you can't get rid of them fast enough if for no other reason than public perception that you won't stand for what happened.... whethere he knew or not.

Emotionally, I absolutely agree. Personally, I would have liked to have seen Joe announce his retirement this morning. I don't like that he is choosing to hold off.

how can you be the parent of a recruit signed for PSU and live with your decision knowing they'd allow this to go on and just let JoePa ride off on his own power.

It's not just a football program. How can you be a PSU student's parent and continue to pay that fee knowing this? Show me swift action and I think I could live with it.

[ReignOnU]

i almost think you're joking with some of your posts now.

stop being so academic... well x says he needs to tell y so that equals z. thats not how it works in a situation like this.

you scream and you scream and you scream louder until something is done. whether its on tv, in closed doors with all parties there, or just with the university heads. you do what it takes to make sure this never happens again while you're in control of the program.

this isn't jim tressel situation or a recruiting violation... this is multiple children being abused and having the abuser continue to come around with children under your watch. its absolutely gross.

One more time... you're making your comments based on thinking that you know what he knew. You didn't. I'm making my point based on not knowing what he knew, which we don't know. So while you talk about me being 'too close' to the situation or 'joking,' the fact is, I'm the one looking at it cognitively, while many people, including the media, are looking at this emotionally.

[LetsGoPeay]

An article I read made the point that it would be in Penn State's best interest to axe Paterno now. If they continue winning and get to the B1G Championship and a BCS game with him still on the sideline, that's a huge amount of additional attention that's going to be focused on this. And if it comes out later that he was negligent in his actions and the university continued to let him coach, it becomes even worse. I really think they've got to cut ties now and it probably goes without saying that the McQuery guy's career at PSU is over too.

[ReignOnU]

Reign, tell me this, and be objective about it....

You're a football coach, and someone tells you the saw one of your coaches molest a minor. It doesn't matter if he's 7 or 17, it's a minor. You report him to your higher ups....and then what?

Follow up.

Are you telling me that you would be ok with someone accused of something that heinous still being around the kids whose homes you went into, whose parents you made promises to, and whose safety you are entrusted with? If so, then I worry about your judgement.

What you need to worry about is why you don't take the time to read what I'm typing. Everything I've said is under the pretense that he doesn't know the full story. I've been VERY clear about this.

So he's in the wrong there....and now let's say you never hear anything about the result of the "investigation"--are you telling me you would STILL be ok with him being around them when you've yet to hear anything either way?

Disregarding that I clearly said in my scenario that he didn't know a child was involved, I'll play along. Did I tell the head of the police department? In my scenario, I noted that the head told me it was being investigated. If I heard nothing, I follow up. If the police head continues to tell me the investigation is on going, I wait, because it's not my place to interfere with their investigation.

And then let's say years later you hear MORE allegations....at what point do you start to become concerned?

Concerned again. I would have followed up until I heard the investigation was closed.

I refuse to blame it on sheer ignorance or sheer "not knowing", in a situation like this you are not only obligated to do what is best to protect your players, but also to make DAMN SURE that you keep abreast of what's going on.

Here at work, if I request something gets done and I don't hear anything back about the outcome, I follow up. I check with the customer, I check with the field techs, I check on the accounts. I don't just say "oh, someone else is supposed to take care of it, it'll get done". And this is for something minor. To not do that with something this agregious???

I hope that's responsible enough posting for you. I'm not being emotional, I'm being rational. There's a difference. It's irrational to simply say "he reported it, he did all he needed to" and be ok with that.

It's not responsible enough posting, because you're not taking the time to read why I put out here and afford me the same responses that I just afforded you. You've completely missed the point with every reply that you've made towards me, though I've made it clear the circumstances in my posts. Many people are making statements based on what they 'think' they know or on very little information that is factual. Show me facts, I'll show you an informed opinion. We don't have the facts right now.

[ReignOnU]

I am still confused. Did this happen while he was a coach at PSU or after he retired? If this happend when he was on the staff then as Dave said, its under your watch and you go down with the ship.

If it happend after he left, I dont really know what to think.

I'd answer you, but you don't like me.