Occupy Wall Street

[jsence2]

This thread is making my head hurt.. Everyone should agree to just disagree. I m not even sure why I keep reading it.

Most people have pretty strong feelings about these topics, and it is very hard to convince someone of those feelings of anything differently, specially on topics such as these. Both sides could have valid points, but each side is going to disregard the valid points and focus on the invalid points.. Naturally how debates work .. You go in circles, and it is usually the side that can better articulate their points and grab better attention and pick apart the not so good points of the other that seems to come out on top.

Its pretty interesting the thoughts people have on the subject, tough. And even more interesting to see how many people avoided the conversation.

Economics is a confusing topic for a lot of people. It's probably why a lot of people stay out of the debate. Even for those of us who are educated on it, we can stand by our policy thoughts all we want, but it's still a tricky thing. That's why you have guys like Bernanke who are vetted immensely before being given the power to make economic policy changes.

I think we all can agree that the current economic model, as it stands now, is not good for the future of this nation. The amount of debt, the trade gap, etc has us on a path of unsustainability; we cannot keep an economy afloat on home building/buying and service jobs like we have tried to do for the last 10 years. We need growth and manufacturing, we need energy, etc. The problem is, nobody can agree on what or how to make the policy changes that are needed to bring us out of this recession GLOBALLY and get us back on the right track.

Maybe if we grew some balls and made China stop deflating their currency to further their standing, we could see some headway, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Shiftdnb]

just don't tell me stuff isn't possible for everyone.

thats the only reason i got involved in this thread.

thats complete bullshit and a lame excuse

How about a crack baby? A mentally handicapped person? An autistic person? A retiree with alzheimers? An orphan? Any child? The guy who lost his job when he broke his back? The widow of a soldier who died? The first responders who are suffering from illnesses from 9/11? The fire victims in Texas, the tornado victims in Missouri and Alabama, the flood victims all over the states this year? All these people are going to need government assistance. It's time we take care of our people and stop being fucking greedy.

[Shiftdnb]

[jsence2]

just don't tell me stuff isn't possible for everyone.

thats the only reason i got involved in this thread.

thats complete bullshit and a lame excuse

How about a crack baby? A mentally handicapped person? An autistic person? A retiree with alzheimers? An orphan? Any child? The guy who lost his job when he broke his back? The widow of a soldier who died? The first responders who are suffering from illnesses from 9/11? The fire victims in Texas, the tornado victims in Missouri and Alabama, the flood victims all over the states this year? All these people are going to need government assistance. It's time we take care of our people and stop being fucking greedy.

And for every one of those people who truly NEED help, Shift, you have a woman in the projects on welfare who keeps having kids every year, has a brand new Escalade in the parking lot, and an iPad....and no job.

The system is broken but it would be interesting to see how the system would work if it weren't being ABUSED and someone actually came in and cleaned up shop. I love how the whole "you should be drug tested if you're on welfare" thing became such a "racist" or "greedy" issue. Wonder why the race card got played so fast? Maybe the suggestion hit too close to home and people felt threatened?

[nick]

people arent driving escalades on welfare. I seen people on welfare all the time as I live in a very low income area, and trust me, there aren't any escalades roaming. Maybe the drug dealers and pimps cars

[jsence2]

people arent driving escalades on welfare. I seen people on welfare all the time as I live in a very low income area, and trust me, there aren't any escalades roaming. Maybe the drug dealers and pimps cars

Nick, you live in Canada. You know nothing.

[brwnbear]

How about a crack baby? A mentally handicapped person? An autistic person? A retiree with alzheimers? An orphan? Any child? The guy who lost his job when he broke his back? The widow of a soldier who died? The first responders who are suffering from illnesses from 9/11? The fire victims in Texas, the tornado victims in Missouri and Alabama, the flood victims all over the states this year? All these people are going to need government assistance.

Shift, that is not what these protest are about. They only care about themselves.

It's time we take care of our people and stop being fucking greedy.

As long as someone else pays for it, right?

Edit: The whole tone of the protest is that it is always someone else's fault. They refuse to look at themselves. If they are old enough to vote, they are old enough to realize that they are going to have to pay back a student loan they took out. But now they want someone else to pay for their mistakes and blame them for not being successful. Here is an idea, if no one will hire you, hire yourself. If you are that much of a commodity, invest in yourself. Don't wait until someone else does it for you.

[nick]

people arent driving escalades on welfare. I seen people on welfare all the time as I live in a very low income area, and trust me, there aren't any escalades roaming. Maybe the drug dealers and pimps cars

Nick, you live in Canada. You know nothing.

well ..... I do know that I'm fine and secure up here. Good feeling

[Shiftdnb]

I love how the whole "you should be drug tested if you're on welfare" thing became such a "racist" or "greedy" issue. Wonder why the race card got played so fast? Maybe the suggestion hit too close to home and people felt threatened?

Actually that started in a State where the governor just happened to own a testing company. Also since Florida has begun testing only 2% have failed test and 2% have refused to take the test. That's 96% of tests that the state now has to pay.

http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/ ... ar-252458/

[OracleHCR]

I love how the whole "you should be drug tested if you're on welfare" thing became such a "racist" or "greedy" issue. Wonder why the race card got played so fast? Maybe the suggestion hit too close to home and people felt threatened?

Actually that started in a State where the governor just happened to own a testing company. Also since Florida has begun testing only 2% have failed test and 2% have refused to take the test. That's 96% of tests that the state now has to pay.

http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/ ... ar-252458/

I'm fine with paying that. That's also 4% that don't get a free ride. As long as they keep passing the tests, pay them. One fail though and its time to find a job.

[trendon]

When I am at a computer, I will tell you why that testing is a horrendous procedure and anyone who likes it hasn't thought it all the way through.

[Shiftdnb]

Shift, that is not what these protest are about. They only care about themselves.

Umm, not quite sure what you're getting at here. These are exactly what these protests are about. Taking to task the 1% that are paying historically low tax rates.

As long as someone else pays for it, right?

I pay my fucking taxes, I pay a higher percentage of my income than a person that is in the 1% because I have to make my money with labor.

[jsence2]

I love how the whole "you should be drug tested if you're on welfare" thing became such a "racist" or "greedy" issue. Wonder why the race card got played so fast? Maybe the suggestion hit too close to home and people felt threatened?

Actually that started in a State where the governor just happened to own a testing company. Also since Florida has begun testing only 2% have failed test and 2% have refused to take the test. That's 96% of tests that the state now has to pay.

http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/ ... ar-252458/

I'm fine with paying that. That's also 4% that don't get a free ride. As long as they keep passing the tests, pay them. One fail though and its time to find a job.

Same here.

I also think that there should be a "you have another kid and you're out" rule so that serial welfare comes to an end, but that would be too logical of a solution.

[OracleHCR]

When I am at a computer, I will tell you why that testing is a horrendous procedure and anyone who likes it hasn't thought it all the way through.

I get tested for my job and I have no problem with it. Most career jobs require testing in Florida, at least in my area. I will wait to read your explanation though.

[6ftdeep]

just don't tell me stuff isn't possible for everyone.

thats the only reason i got involved in this thread.

thats complete bullshit and a lame excuse

How about a crack baby? A mentally handicapped person? An autistic person? A retiree with alzheimers? An orphan? Any child? The guy who lost his job when he broke his back? The widow of a soldier who died? The first responders who are suffering from illnesses from 9/11? The fire victims in Texas, the tornado victims in Missouri and Alabama, the flood victims all over the states this year? All these people are going to need government assistance. It's time we take care of our people and stop being fucking greedy.

And for every one of those people who truly NEED help, Shift, you have a woman in the projects on welfare who keeps having kids every year, has a brand new Escalade in the parking lot, and an iPad....and no job.

The system is broken but it would be interesting to see how the system would work if it weren't being ABUSED and someone actually came in and cleaned up shop. I love how the whole "you should be drug tested if you're on welfare" thing became such a "racist" or "greedy" issue. Wonder why the race card got played so fast? Maybe the suggestion hit too close to home and people felt threatened?

Jsence, I gonna call bullshit on your escalade comment. That is so far from the truth, and the 1to1 ratio you gave is so far from the truth as well.
I grew up in the projects till I was 19 years old and got the furthest away from home I possibly good on school loans.

The only family's in the hood or projects on welfare and have expensive cars are those who are also into something really illegal..Because I don't care how much advantage you take of the system you are not buying an escalade with the money the govt gives you. Yes there are those who take advantage of the money they are given and find ways to keep getting free money and not work. But is far from the abundance you make it sound.

Also yes their are women out there who keep popping kids out when they cant afford them, and continue to get more welfare. But that is not a 1to 1 ratio, hell it not even 5 to 1 ratio.

[nick]

just don't tell me stuff isn't possible for everyone.

thats the only reason i got involved in this thread.

thats complete bullshit and a lame excuse

How about a crack baby? A mentally handicapped person? An autistic person? A retiree with alzheimers? An orphan? Any child? The guy who lost his job when he broke his back? The widow of a soldier who died? The first responders who are suffering from illnesses from 9/11? The fire victims in Texas, the tornado victims in Missouri and Alabama, the flood victims all over the states this year? All these people are going to need government assistance. It's time we take care of our people and stop being fucking greedy.

And for every one of those people who truly NEED help, Shift, you have a woman in the projects on welfare who keeps having kids every year, has a brand new Escalade in the parking lot, and an iPad....and no job.

The system is broken but it would be interesting to see how the system would work if it weren't being ABUSED and someone actually came in and cleaned up shop. I love how the whole "you should be drug tested if you're on welfare" thing became such a "racist" or "greedy" issue. Wonder why the race card got played so fast? Maybe the suggestion hit too close to home and people felt threatened?

Jsence, I gonna call bullshit on your escalade comment. That is so far from the truth, and the 1to1 ratio you gave is so far from the truth as well.
I grew up in the projects till I was 19 years old and got the furthest away from home I possibly good on school loans.

The only family's in the hood or projects on welfare and have expensive cars are those who are also into something really illegal..Because I don't care how much advantage you take of the system you are not buying an escalade with the money the govt gives you. Yes there are those who take advantage of the money they are given and find ways to keep getting free money and not work. But is far from the abundance you make it sound.

Also yes their are women out there who keep popping kids out when they cant afford them, and continue to get more welfare. But that is not a 1to 1 ratio, hell it not even 5 to 1 ratio.

funny, i said the same thing aboutmy area, but i live in Canada

[cdub21]

I pay my fucking taxes, I pay a higher percentage of my income than a person that is in the 1% because I have to make my money with labor.

huh? i dont get what that means

they pay 35% and you pay less than that.

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/f ... ckets.html

[Shiftdnb]

I pay my fucking taxes, I pay a higher percentage of my income than a person that is in the 1% because I have to make my money with labor.

huh? i dont get what that means

they pay 35% and you pay less than that.

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/f ... ckets.html

That's on their income based on a job which is only up to a certain amount. Try all income earned only 17%
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/12/news/ec ... axes_2010/

[nick]

This is my final post in this thread. This is gonna go turdy soon

RIP Al Davis

[brwnbear]

I pay my fucking taxes, I pay a higher percentage of my income than a person that is in the 1% because I have to make my money with labor.

huh? i dont get what that means

they pay 35% and you pay less than that.

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/f ... ckets.html

That's on their income based on a job which is only up to a certain amount. Try all income earned only 17%
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/12/news/ec ... axes_2010/

Read the article.

from the article...

And just in terms of averages, the current tax system already satisfies the Buffett Rule. Americans on average pay 16% of their total income in federal income and payroll taxes, while millionaires pay an average of 20.1%, according to the Tax Policy Center.

20.1 > 16