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I don't really get this Baton Rouge outrage.

It's confirmed that he had a gun, waved it at someone, and that is why the cops came out. We can question tackling him and whether that was the correct call(they probably assumed they had to subdue the guy willy nilly waving a gun around, hard to really argue that), but he was resisting, 2 shots with a taser didn't bring him down, so they tackled him. Cop yells "he's got a gun" and immediately after there is an obvious scuffle with the cop unable to pin the dude's right arm down. Meaning, it's entirely plausible the guy was going for his gun and maybe had his hand in his pocket. The store owner also said the cops pulled a gun from his pocket afterwards.

Were the cops supposed to wait and see if he actually got the alleged gun and was going to use it, then hoped they could pull the trigger before him?

My biggest question is if you know he has a gun according to the call, I'd feel like after he's resisted/gotten tased, it would seem safer to draw weapons and wait for backup as opposed to tackling him, no? I think of it this way, if I'm in a random situation, I'd feel infinitely safer if I had a gun pointed at someone from a safe distance then if I were wrestling with them, so I wonder if that was the right call. But I'm not a cop, so I don't know what's correct or not in that case. And of course you could argue that whipping guns out isn't exactly a safe alternative for everyone around as well, so who knows.

got the referral for the program. info session/signup July 20th

nick wrote:got the referral for the program. info session/signup July 20th

Good luck, trade programs are quality stuff

Pretty graphic if your squeamish about stuff like that


The guys gun was never pulled out on the cops and both cops were on top on him with one right at the guys mid section where the gun was. And as you can clearly see the gun was still in this guys pocket after they killed him. Guy was murdered.

looking at the pay rates is making me dizzy. "Lowest" end is Sheet Metal. 36 hr weeks (mon-thurs 9 hrs/day)





bust my balls and in 5-6 yrs ill go from a joke to someone worth a fuck. pretty pumped right now.

Crowes wrote:The guys gun was never pulled out on the cops and both cops were on top on him with one right at the guys mid section where the gun was. And as you can clearly see the gun was still in this guys pocket after they killed him. Guy was murdered.

Honest question, if the guy was indeed trying to get his gun(and the video does show that is entirely plausible), are the cops supposed to wait to see if he does get the gun, wait to see what he plans to do with the gun, wait til he points it at them, then shoot?

I don't think you can or should take a chance with your life, as a cop or citizen, if a guy is trying to get his hand in his pocket to get a gun, especially under those circumstances of resisting, being tased, waving a gun at someone which prompted the call.

shel311 wrote:

Crowes wrote:The guys gun was never pulled out on the cops and both cops were on top on him with one right at the guys mid section where the gun was. And as you can clearly see the gun was still in this guys pocket after they killed him. Guy was murdered.

Honest question, if the guy was indeed trying to get his gun(and the video does show that is entirely plausible), are the cops supposed to wait to see if he does get the gun, wait to see what he plans to do with the gun, wait til he points it at them, then shoot?

I don't think you can or should take a chance with your life, as a cop or citizen, if a guy is trying to get his hand in his pocket to get a gun, especially under those circumstances of resisting, being tased, waving a gun at someone which prompted the call.

Then don't be a freaking cop is my opinion. A cops job in my opinion should be defusing situations and if two grown men would are/should be trained how to subdue people cant keep this guy who is on the ground from getting to his gun then they can't do their job. When you decide to be a cop this is the shit you sign up to deal with your job requires you to go beyond what a normal citizen is expected to do when they feel their life is in danger. Killing someone should be the absolute last resort not at the slightest could be maybe threat.

Crowes wrote:A cops job in my opinion should be defusing situations and if two grown men would are/should be trained how to subdue people can keep this guy who is on the ground from getting to his gun then they can't do their job.

He was 300lbs and 2 shots with a taser didn't take him down, fwiw.

You seem to be oversimplifying how easy it should have been for the 2 cops to handle the guy.

Crowes wrote:Then don't be a freaking cop is my opinion.

Your opinion seems to insinuate cops shouldn't take every possible measure to protect themselves? I'm confused.

And in fairness, you dodged the question. Dude is possibly going for his gun, how far should the cops have let him go with that attempt before shooting?

Haven't watched the video but don't most if not all cops carry some form of wrist restraints whether it be handcuffs or flexicuffs?

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Cnasty wrote:Congrats nick!!

Best of luck and keep your eye on the prize. It will pay off.

Can't complain with 36 hour weeks!

DRWebs wrote:Haven't watched the video but don't most if not all cops carry some form of wrist restraints whether it be handcuffs or flexicuffs?

Probably.

But this happened well before the point of getting cuffs on the guy. Basically, they took him down, a brief struggle, 1 cop yells, "he's got a gun", other cop pulls and points his gun...cop that yelled can be seen scuffling with the guy, specifically the guy's right hand, cop makes another comment I don't recall what exactly, but yelled something else about the "gun" I believe, then the other cop shoots.

My main point is, let's wait and see, let's get more facts here. Hell, maybe the guy didn't even have a gun on him, though that seems unlikely. But from confirmed reports and the video, it seems plausible this dude had a gun in his pocket and was making a play for it. I don't feel comfortable telling a human being to take a wait and see approach to determine what he's going to do with the gun once he gets ahold of it.

Crowes wrote:Guy was murdered.

There is just no way to know what happened from this clip.
I HATE social media and the way people judge when not knowing the complete story.

In a situation like this, it is a tragedy that someone has lost their life, but I will say the same thing I have always said, don't resist, obey them during that situation and results would be much different.

And don't twist my thoughts. I am in no way saying that there are not bad cops out there and these guys could be bad ones, but that clip does not show nearly enough of the entire situation to make a judgement call.
Cops are put into terrible, split second decisions, a lot and have to make a call in an instant that is a life/death call.
So let's understand the entire situation before we judge them and say they murdered someone.

And to DR's point, it looked like they were trying to get to a point where they could get to restraining him with zip ties or cuffs or something and then he did something that set them off.
You cannot see in the video what he did.
He could have grabbed one of their guns or tasers, etc., we simply do not know.

And I completely agree with shel. We need way more facts before we decide that they murdered him.

shel311 wrote:

Crowes wrote:A cops job in my opinion should be defusing situations and if two grown men would are/should be trained how to subdue people can keep this guy who is on the ground from getting to his gun then they can't do their job.

He was 300lbs and 2 shots with a taser didn't take him down, fwiw.

You seem to be oversimplifying how easy it should have been for the 2 cops to handle the guy.

Crowes wrote:Then don't be a freaking cop is my opinion.

Your opinion seems to insinuate cops shouldn't take every possible measure to protect themselves? I'm confused.

And in fairness, you dodged the question. Dude is possibly going for his gun, how far should the cops have let him go with that attempt before shooting?

To me two cops had the man on the ground there was no reason for them to shoot that man barring him literally pulling the gun out his pocket. Police should be held to a higher standard than your average citizen IMO simply having the bar at feeling threatened to use deadly force is to low. When someone decides to be a cop and receive the job training that goes with that job you should be signing up to that higher standard their job is to protect and serve the public. Just simply wrestling with someone gun or no gun isnt reason to take a life.

shel311 wrote:

DRWebs wrote:Haven't watched the video but don't most if not all cops carry some form of wrist restraints whether it be handcuffs or flexicuffs?

Probably.

But this happened well before the point of getting cuffs on the guy. Basically, they took him down, a brief struggle, 1 cop yells, "he's got a gun", other cop pulls and points his gun...cop that yelled can be seen scuffling with the guy, specifically the guy's right hand, cop makes another comment I don't recall what exactly, but yelled something else about the "gun" I believe, then the other cop shoots.

My main point is, let's wait and see, let's get more facts here. Hell, maybe the guy didn't even have a gun on him, though that seems unlikely. But from confirmed reports and the video, it seems plausible this dude had a gun in his pocket and was making a play for it. I don't feel comfortable telling a human being to take a wait and see approach to determine what he's going to do with the gun once he gets ahold of it.

He did have a gun in the video after they shoot him you can see one cop go over and pull what looks like a small gun out of the guys pocket.

Crowes wrote:To me two cops had the man on the ground there was no reason for them to shoot that man barring him literally pulling the gun out his pocket.

Seems way too late IMO.

If the gun is out, whether you're shooting or not, he can be shooting as well.

Just seems too late at that point.

The_Niddler wrote:

Crowes wrote:Guy was murdered.

There is just no way to know what happened from this clip.
I HATE social media and the way people judge when not knowing the complete story.

In a situation like this, it is a tragedy that someone has lost their life, but I will say the same thing I have always said, don't resist, obey them during that situation and results would be much different.

And don't twist my thoughts. I am in no way saying that there are not bad cops out there and these guys could be bad ones, but that clip does not show nearly enough of the entire situation to make a judgement call.
Cops are put into terrible, split second decisions, a lot and have to make a call in an instant that is a life/death call.
So let's understand the entire situation before we judge them and say they murdered someone.

And to DR's point, it looked like they were trying to get to a point where they could get to restraining him with zip ties or cuffs or something and then he did something that set them off.
You cannot see in the video what he did.
He could have grabbed one of their guns or tasers, etc., we simply do not know.

And I completely agree with shel. We need way more facts before we decide that they murdered him.

I'm sorry but you can watch the video and see the cops escalated the situation with the aggressive tactics that have become common place.

I am sorry, but you can watch the video and think whatever you want.
The reality is that the cops are in a high stress situation and made a snap judgement.
If the potential criminal would have respected them and didn't resist, this would have never happened.

Crowes wrote:I'm sorry but you can watch the video and see the cops escalated the situation with the aggressive tactics that have become common place.

There's no video of it as of now, and you don't know what tactics they used or what the guy did or said that led them to that point, so again, you're making factual type statements without facts to support them. This all goes back to needing more facts before making definitive statements.



And also, let's remember they came to the call for a guy waving a gun and that guy was then resisting arrest, they probably felt they had to diffuse the situation at some point before something really bad happened with innocent bystanders around, right?

The_Niddler wrote:I am sorry, but you can watch the video and think whatever you want.
The reality is that the cops are in a high stress situation and made a snap judgement.
If the potential criminal would have respected them and didn't resist, this would have never happened.

No the reality is cops are not god if they had treated that man with a little more respect they might have received some in return and they sign up to do a job where they are trained to make those snap judgements and if they make the wrong one then they should be held accountable which way more times then not they are not held accountable.