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Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:27 am
by TheGobOne
TheGobOne wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:12 am
GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:47 pm
TheGobOne wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:38 am
GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:44 am
TheGobOne wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:14 am
Yes because MVP is all about offensive categories. Too bad there isn’t it’s own award for that.
And there is an award for defense, and Russel won that. But to say he should have won the MVP is laughable. Hell, Carlos Gomez out played Russell and he didn't finish in the top 5 in MVP voting
He also won a Platinum Stick...at CF a premier position. I guess I'm team Nick now. This game is biased against CF! Time to write to Congress and have them overturn Vidro's MVP asap.
Russell was nowhere near vidro
Do you have facts to back all this up? I'm down for the argument but you've provided nothing of substance....ahh nevermind I forgot who I was talking to.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 am
by wdoupis
File is uploading...
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:21 am
by wdoupis
File is uploaded, website updated. New in game date 12/19
Tomorrow takes us to rule 5 pool, protect your guys!!!!!
Free agency continues, sign away.
Just two more chances to vote for HOF, please please please vote
Lets go Chiefs -3
Joseph Jordan signs a 3 year deal worth 22 million with Washington
Francisco Morales signs a 4 year deal worth 34 million with Washington
Duane Atkins signs a 4 year deal worth 100 million with Houston
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:52 am
by GeorgesGoons
TheGobOne wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:27 am
Do you have facts to back all this up? I'm down for the argument but you've provided nothing of substance....ahh nevermind I forgot who I was talking to.
[/quote]
Just look at the stats.
Russell (Vidro)
39th in BA (3rd)
3rd in OBP (6th)
14th in Slugging (1st)
11th in OPS (2nd)
1st in WAR (2nd)
16th in WPA (3rd)
12th in ISO (7th)
10th in wOBA (2nd)
6th in wRC (2nd)
32nd in Hits (1st)
9th in HR's (4th)
2nd in Runs (7th)
17 in RBIs (6th)
1st in Walks
4t0h in SB
Vidro was top 10 in every comparable stat (13 times) except Walks and SB. Russell only reached the top 10 six times.
Russell only leads Vidro in OBP, WAR, Runs, Walks and SB.
Russell accolades this year: Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, All Star
Vidro accolades this year: Silver Slugger, AL Rookie of the month x3, AL Batter of the month, All Star, AL Player of the Week, Silver Slugger, Rookie of the Year, MVP.
Do you really think he had a better year and more deserving of the MVP? Make your case, which you have yet to do. Statistically Vidro was a better player and more deserving of the MVP.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:51 am
by Wasted Memory
The Duane Atkins signing has to be the fastest I've ever seen a FA of value sign.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:27 pm
by TheGobOne
GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:52 am
Just look at the stats.
Russell (Vidro)
39th in BA (3rd)
3rd in OBP (6th)
14th in Slugging (1st)
11th in OPS (2nd)
1st in WAR (2nd)
16th in WPA (3rd)
12th in ISO (7th)
10th in wOBA (2nd)
6th in wRC (2nd)
32nd in Hits (1st)
9th in HR's (4th)
2nd in Runs (7th)
17 in RBIs (6th)
1st in Walks
4t0h in SB
Vidro was top 10 in every comparable stat (13 times) except Walks and SB. Russell only reached the top 10 six times.
Russell only leads Vidro in OBP, WAR, Runs, Walks and SB.
Russell accolades this year: Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, All Star
Vidro accolades this year: Silver Slugger, AL Rookie of the month x3, AL Batter of the month, All Star, AL Player of the Week, Silver Slugger, Rookie of the Year, MVP.
Do you really think he had a better year and more deserving of the MVP? Make your case, which you have yet to do. Statistically Vidro was a better player and more deserving of the MVP.
I can't believe I have to ask you this but you actually realize there are more than (or at least should be, maybe this janky engine doesn't do it) just offensive categories that should go into MVP.
MVP should be a measure of the best OVERALL player that year, which includes defense and baserunning.(Actually it should be the player that his team doesn't make the playoffs without, which isn't either of us, but that's just how MVP has been forever.)
I also stated it's close. You're implying that Russell is shit compared to Vidro which just isn't the case. Maybe we should do a league poll and see if anyone would trade them straight up for each other, results could be interesting.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:25 pm
by GeorgesGoons
Never said he was shit, or implied. Just said that thinking it is close is laughable in my opinion. I also think Carlos Gomez is more deserving than Russell (better offensively, better runner, and great at defensive as well).
As far as base running, both had 20 doubles, Vidro had more triples, Russell had 24 SB compared to 12 for Vidro, both stole at the same success rate.
Vidro didn't play up to expectations on defense this year, maybe it's a rookie thing.... beats me (Russell wasn't as good last year as he was this year). He was 5th in range and efficiency for 3B so it's not like he was costing his team wins all year long with 10 left big toes on his hands.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:34 pm
by Neurotic
When will you guys learn that SBs are pointless.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:36 pm
by Neurotic
Also, I wouldnt trade Vidro for Russel. With how anemic offense is atm, Vidro's value is higher than WAR projects.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:32 pm
by GeorgesGoons
Neurotic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:34 pm
When will you guys learn that SBs are pointless.
They aren't useless. Maybe overvalued but not useless. It's nice to have a guy get in scoring position for someone behind them that can drive him in with a long single or double.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:50 pm
by shel311
Going forward, i'd certainly take Vidro over Russell.
But it seems you dudes are comparing this year's performance, and there's zero chance that any 1 of the 2 dudes were so super clearly better than the other. It was pretty darn close.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:04 pm
by nick
WAR rules everything around me
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:01 pm
by nick
1 mil? really? thats all it took?
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:34 pm
by Neurotic
GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:32 pm
Neurotic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:34 pm
When will you guys learn that SBs are pointless.
They aren't useless. Maybe overvalued but not useless. It's nice to have a guy get in scoring position for someone behind them that can drive him in with a long single or double.
Unless you're stealing bases at a very high success rate, you're costing yourself runs.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:37 pm
by nick
Wang had 69 SBs and 8 CS. Diaz was 34-4
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:39 pm
by Neurotic
nick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:37 pm
Wang had 69 SBs and 8 CS. Diaz was 34-4
As long as you're over 80%, its worth it. Personally, I try not to steal bases unless they can consistently be 85% or better. Obviously both of those guys fit the bill.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:10 pm
by shel311
Neurotic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:34 pm
GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:32 pm
Neurotic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:34 pm
When will you guys learn that SBs are pointless.
They aren't useless. Maybe overvalued but not useless. It's nice to have a guy get in scoring position for someone behind them that can drive him in with a long single or double.
Unless you're stealing bases at a very high success rate, you're costing yourself runs.
So, not at all pointless then.
That's like saying leadoff hitters aren't useless unless they get on base at a nice clip. Well, yea. Anything is useless if you're not doing it well.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:12 pm
by Neurotic
shel311 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:10 pm
That's like saying leadoff hitters aren't useless unless they get on base at a nice clip. Well, yea. Anything is useless if you're not doing it well.
Most people don't steal bases at 80% or better. Generally speaking, the meaning in that wasn't that stolen bases are useless. What I'm saying is, most people don't steal them efficiently enough for it to be worth it. Tbh, your comparison isn't even relative. Someone HAS to leadoff in the lineup. You don't HAVE to steal.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:59 pm
by The_Niddler
I don't know about OOTP, but if it is like real life, SBs are the difference between a win and a loss if it is a pitchers duel or low scoring game where you have to manufacture runs.
As George stated, If I have a guy on 1st, I am not driving him in with a hit to the wall in left/center, but, if the guy is on 2nd and he is somewhat fast, now he is scoring on that same hit.
Played baseball my entire life basically and coached it for several years and continue to coach it. SBs are FAR from pointless.
Re: 2079 Season Thread... Weaving His Own Web
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:12 pm
by Neurotic
That is a very old school way of thinking about it. Go do some research on the required success rate of SBs for them to lead to runs. It obviously varies based on the situation (outs, runners on base, etc), but the required success rates might surprise you. In terms of OOTP, especially because you cant explicitly control when a SB attempt happens, its even higher.