Penn St

[nick]

The worst thing is he cant even tell his side of the story. Now hes gonna be known for this bullshit with Sandusky and who knows what Joe Pa did. Sucks

He already did tell his side of the story.

did he?

[shel311]

The worst thing is he cant even tell his side of the story. Now hes gonna be known for this bullshit with Sandusky and who knows what Joe Pa did. Sucks

He already did tell his side of the story.

did he?

Yep, to a grand jury.

[DRiccio21]

BOT is going to be feeling a lot of heat during these next days. The sad thing in all this is as a teacher/coach it is our responsibility to tell our principal/athletic director of any thing we hear that effects children and after that we have to let the system handle the matter.

The way that some people are talking about JoePa you would have thought he commited the acts. There is more coverage about what JoePa didn't do then Sandusky??

Put yourself in Joe's shoes, he gets a report from McQueary that makes him sick and gives it to the higher ups. At that point he has turned it over to them. It was not his job to call the police as far as I know. I do not know what Penn State's rules are for teachers.

I know in Oregon we have Mandatory reporting and here is what we have to do by law:

Q. Who do I contact if I suspect child abuse?
According to ORS 419B.015, "a person making a report of child abuse shall make an oral report by telephone or otherwise to a local Child Welfare office of the Department of Human Services, to the division's designee, or to a law enforcement agency within the county where the person making the report is at the time of the contact." A law enforcement agency can be defined as a local police department, county sheriff, county juvenile department, or Oregon State Police.

http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/children/abus ... port.shtml

So not even us teachers in Oregon have to go directly to the police.

Now doing some research about the state of Pennsylvania I found this:

Staff members of public or private agencies, institutions and facilities. Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).

(c) Reporting procedure. Reports of suspected child abuse shall be made by telephone and by written report.

(1) Oral reports. Oral reports of suspected child abuse shall be made immediately by telephone to ChildLine, (800) 932-0313.

(2) Written reports. Written reports shall be made within 48 hours after the oral report is made by telephone. Written reports shall be made on forms available from a county children and youth social service agency.

(d) Written reports. Written reports shall be made in the manner and on forms prescribed by the Department of Public Welfare. The following information shall be included in the written reports, if available:

Again and it has been reported that JoePa legally did what he was supposed to do. Joe at the time probably thought I have passed this information to my supervisors and if nothing happens maybe McQueary did not really see what he thought he saw. Plus and this will sound terrible but Joe was running a program. His job legally was to report it and get on with his life.

Us teachers have to do that also, we cannot drop everything to make sure the system has worked. We have to hope the system does what it was designed to and it is on the department of human services.

McQueary is really the one that should have provided the written report because he is the one who "saw" the acts.

Hopefully I don't sound insensitive but it goes with the job that we have to trust in the system.

legal responsibility and moral responsibility are two totally different things.

i have absolutely no issues with how it went down. he deserved to be fired... Sandusky was still around the campus, the program and around kids up until this all went down. there is absolutely no excuse for that.

[ndlquack]

legal responsibility and moral responsibility are two totally different things.

i have absolutely no issues with how it went down. he deserved to be fired... Sandusky was still around the campus, the program and around kids up until this all went down. there is absolutely no excuse for that.

I agree about the moral responsibility but and I would be curious to hear from the other teachers/government employees in the league.

What more what was he supposed to do? Once he turns that information over, sadly it is out of his hands. Most of the time the department of human services will not release the information that they find even if you call to find out.

Any other teachers or government employees have any more information?

These discussions about mandatory reporting are really going to shape how things like this are handled in the future.

Quack

[brwnbear]

legal responsibility and moral responsibility are two totally different things.

i have absolutely no issues with how it went down. he deserved to be fired... Sandusky was still around the campus, the program and around kids up until this all went down. there is absolutely no excuse for that.

There are legal remnification for doing things beyond your responsibility. I am sure in hindsight, Paterno would have handled things differently, but he could have put the university at risk and his position at risk if he did not follow protocal and the allegations turned out to be falsed. Had Sandusky not done those things, he could have sued Joe for false accusations and the university for wrongful termination.

I know its easier to light up torches and head to Paterno's house with pitchforks but if Paterno only knew of this one instance and nothing more, I am not sure I can really see fault for what he did given his position requirement to protect the university until the single allegation proves to be true.

Let me put it this way. You hire a part time assistant. A few month later she comes to you saying one of your long term employees has been sexually harrassing her. You have never had any other reports from any of your other employees. If you go and ask your other employees if they have been harrased you open yourself up to lawsuits for potentially spreading false rumors. If you fire the employee and the allegations are baseless, then you just opened yourself up to wrongful termination. Your only option is to report it to your HR department and allow the experts to deal with the responsibility/investigation. If you dont hear anything else about it, I dont know how much blame you could really have?

[shel311]

Let me put it this way. You hire a part time assistant. A few month later she comes to you saying one of your long term employees has been sexually harrassing her. You have never had any other reports from any of your other employees. If you go and ask your other employees if they have been harrased you open yourself up to lawsuits for potentially spreading false rumors. If you fire the employee and the allegations are baseless, then you just opened yourself up to wrongful termination. Your only option is to report it to your HR department and allow the experts to deal with the responsibility/investigation. If you dont hear anything else about it, I dont know how much blame you could really have?

But there was 1998, which is basically why Sandusky disappeared. Sure, he wasn't convicted.

Then, this happens again in 2001 or whenever.

Then, the grand jury testimony was almost 2 years ago. And put that all together, and a figurehead like Paterno did absolutely nothing to the point where Sandusky still had all his usual rights to the facilities and campus?

I believe there would certainly be a moral responsibility at some point in there for JoePa.

Plus, was Sandusky even an employee? Did they have to fire him, or couldn't Paterno have just used his status to say he didn't want that guy anywhere near campus any more at some point, even if it was 1 year ago?

[OracleHCR]

Let me put it this way. You hire a part time assistant. A few month later she comes to you saying one of your long term employees has been sexually harrassing her. You have never had any other reports from any of your other employees. If you go and ask your other employees if they have been harrased you open yourself up to lawsuits for potentially spreading false rumors. If you fire the employee and the allegations are baseless, then you just opened yourself up to wrongful termination. Your only option is to report it to your HR department and allow the experts to deal with the responsibility/investigation. If you dont hear anything else about it, I dont know how much blame you could really have?

But there was 1998, which is basically why Sandusky disappeared. Sure, he wasn't convicted.

Then, this happens again in 2001 or whenever.

Then, the grand jury testimony was almost 2 years ago. And put that all together, and a figurehead like Paterno did absolutely nothing to the point where Sandusky still had all his usual rights to the facilities and campus?

I believe there would certainly be a moral responsibility at some point in there for JoePa.

Plus, was Sandusky even an employee? Did they have to fire him, or couldn't Paterno have just used his status to say he didn't want that guy anywhere near campus any more at some point, even if it was 1 year ago?

This. Paterno knew they weren't baseless allegations. As much as I respected him as a coach and I hate that his career ended this way, he needed to be fired.

[DRiccio21]

legal responsibility and moral responsibility are two totally different things.

i have absolutely no issues with how it went down. he deserved to be fired... Sandusky was still around the campus, the program and around kids up until this all went down. there is absolutely no excuse for that.

There are legal remnification for doing things beyond your responsibility. I am sure in hindsight, Paterno would have handled things differently, but he could have put the university at risk and his position at risk if he did not follow protocal and the allegations turned out to be falsed. Had Sandusky not done those things, he could have sued Joe for false accusations and the university for wrongful termination.

I know its easier to light up torches and head to Paterno's house with pitchforks but if Paterno only knew of this one instance and nothing more, I am not sure I can really see fault for what he did given his position requirement to protect the university until the single allegation proves to be true.

Let me put it this way. You hire a part time assistant. A few month later she comes to you saying one of your long term employees has been sexually harrassing her. You have never had any other reports from any of your other employees. If you go and ask your other employees if they have been harrased you open yourself up to lawsuits for potentially spreading false rumors. If you fire the employee and the allegations are baseless, then you just opened yourself up to wrongful termination. Your only option is to report it to your HR department and allow the experts to deal with the responsibility/investigation. If you dont hear anything else about it, I dont know how much blame you could really have?

but joe had heard other things and he had seen sandusky with kids and he knew that he had a charity where he spent time with kids. its nowhere near analogous.

you don't allow kids to spend time with any person who you even suspect might be a predator. and if you're worried about the legal ramifications for intervening than i don't want that person running my business,sports program, etc. you do the 'right' thing and let everything else be dealt with later... thats part of being a leader, you make calls based on your gut feeling.

Joe knew, he said so himself and he said he should have done more. the only reason he didn't was because he was afraid of the backlash that would come out from it.

[shel311]

Yea, because of the 1998 scandal, that analogy doesn't hold water.


I truly believe Paterno knew what the deal was but valued the university and his football program more and chose to protect them over the children in this situation. I feel that he knew he was wrong but was hoping to take this to his grave, no pun intended lol.

That basically says all you need to know about that guy.

[Seeitsaveit13]

Yea, because of the 1998 scandal, that analogy doesn't hold water.


I truly believe Paterno knew what the deal was but valued the university and his football program more and chose to protect them over the children in this situation. I feel that he knew he was wrong but was hoping to take this to his grave, no pun intended lol.

That basically says all you need to know about that guy.

No, that basically says all YOU need to know about the guy. You choosing to believe that is your choice, just as others choose to believe something else. Until it is proven, it's just what each side chooses to believe and think, therefore no one should be vilifying nor canonizing him

[brwnbear]

I have not heard confirmation that he knew of any other allegations. If he did then I would change my stance. All I have heard is "he had to know," which is a lot different than "he was told/saw on (date)."

Obviously, not as extreme but if you heard your wife was at a club making out with some guy from one of your co-workers (a co-worker you dont really have a relationship with) would you immediately divorse your wife?

At this point I kinda feel the entire thing was messed up and a lot of kids got hurt that didnt really need to be hurt. If people who are responsible for taking action on these allegations would have acted appropriately (the parent of the first accused, the police, the AD, the university police, the police 2 years ago during the grand jury) then Paterno would not have been made the fall guy.

[shel311]

Until it is proven

Until what is proven?

[brwnbear]

Yea, because of the 1998 scandal, that analogy doesn't hold water.


I truly believe Paterno knew what the deal was but valued the university and his football program more and chose to protect them over the children in this situation. I feel that he knew he was wrong but was hoping to take this to his grave, no pun intended lol.

Truly believing something doesnt make it true. All you have is your gut feeling. You choose to convict the guy without solid evidence and I choose to require evidence before making my decision.

Also, Dave.

If you are the CEO of a national learning center for kids and you put out a press release that you have fired your CFO because he is molesting kids and it turns out to be not true, you have just caused a great deal of damage that could have been avoided. The backlash would be so great from parents that are scared of the allegations that in the end, your actions will have put hundreds of your employees jobs at risk. Sometimes being a good leader requires you to allow others to do their job. The DA had the case and sat on it for 2 years. Why are they absolved from blame?

[brwnbear]

Until it is proven

Until what is proven?

What he did and didnt know and when he knew it. So far, we know of only one time. All the others are assumptions.

[brwnbear]

but joe had heard other things and he had seen sandusky with kids and he knew that he had a charity where he spent time with kids. its nowhere near analogous.

Where is this comming from? I keep reading that you guys say he heard this and that, but you have yet to point out an instance where that happend.

And the DA had the case for 2 years. If the cops are not doing anything, what else do you expect from an 80 years old man? You want him to go there and shoot Sandusky?

[brwnbear]

Also, quadruple post.

I am ok with Joe getting removed from his position. I just dont agree that he should be the principal guy when the media is giving so many others a pass.

[Cnasty]

It's ridiculous how applauded and heralded joepa is after all of this on his watch.

"oh it's Joepa, he is an icon and an old man that has been around forever. He is a hero and an icon for college football".

GTFOH

This shit happened on his watch and to not to continue to make sure something was done instead of "well, I told some people, I did my part and it's now out of my hands" is a freakin joke.

Guilt killed JoePa...and AJ.

[Seeitsaveit13]

It's ridiculous how applauded and heralded joepa is after all of this on his watch.

"oh it's Joepa, he is an icon and an old man that has been around forever. He is a hero and an icon for college football".

GTFOH

This shit happened on his watch and to not to continue to make sure something was done instead of "well, I told some people, I did my part and it's now out of my hands" is a freakin joke.

Guilt killed JoePa...and AJ.

Lung cancer killed Joe Pa, combined with a broken pelvis. C'mon Dr. Krensta!

[Cnasty]

Technicalities!!!!!!

[shel311]

If you are the CEO of a national learning center for kids and you put out a press release that you have fired your CFO because he is molesting kids and it turns out to be not true, you have just caused a great deal of damage that could have been avoided. The backlash would be so great from parents that are scared of the allegations that in the end, your actions will have put hundreds of your employees jobs at risk. Sometimes being a good leader requires you to allow others to do their job. The DA had the case and sat on it for 2 years. Why are they absolved from blame?

You consider a retired coach who uses university facilities on par with a CFO?