NDL Forum

Been watching News Max on WGN as of late. Really a fan of Dan Abrams. He points out the hypocrisy of CNN, MSNBC and Fox News with some of their coverage. If you haven't been able to check him out, you should. Don Lemon says Abrams leans Center left, while Megyn Kelley says he leans Center Right. He definitely has some strong conservative views but also balances it out with some Liberal views as well.

So I really haven't followed the exact situation in detail, in Ukraine and I'm not sure how good the reporting is on it here. Clearly it's not good if one country is surrounding a smaller country on 3 sides (Ukraine is about the size of OH, IN, IL, KY, TN and MO in terms of land btw). But from what I gather, there's serious hostility between eastern and western Ukraine. I recall seeing somewhere that it's 85% of the western portion would want to be with Russia. Not that I think that splitting a country is that simple, but is there something going on that is holding this massive group within the Ukraine against their will and Russia really is doing the right thing (the wrong way) by trying to help? I feel like if 85% of the New England states wanted to be with Canada, I'd wish them luck and let them roll out. From a tactical standpoint, is Russia surrounding them to flex while they move in, simply as a greater threat if they don't get the clean separation?

If the 85% isn't true, then to me, it's laughable that the UN is trying to be diplomatic about all of this. If it's really just a land grab for the power reasons (oil, Ukraine's rich natural resources) then this weak ass response from the UN is begging for Russia to shit on any country they want and it's also setting a hell of an example for China as it relates to Taiwan. We absolutely do NOT want China touching Taiwan.

Thoughts? Educate me here. (would love to hear Billy's perspective)

If you find some good non-biased reporting here please post the link. The coverage from what I have seen has been all over the place. For over a week now the liberal stations say that Russia is about to invade within minutes...but those minutes pass and nothing yet. Then you have Tucker Carlson, who I usually like, coming off as if he is supporting Russia here. I know that is not what he is saying but if you only hear sound bites then that is what you get out of it. I believe he is trying to say, "let them figure it out themselves," but who knows anymore.

Was watching Abrams and he had a segment where Jennifer Griffin put Hannity to task the other day when he was trying to politicize this. I was glad that an actual reporter stood her ground against an opinion host. That's the biggest problem with news today, way too many opinion hosts rather than reporters.

I'm generally of the opinion that we don't play world police, unless we have a legit stake in the situations. We do what we need to to protect American lives both literally and economically. If there's serious human rights violations, then I'm open to helping, but it's a gray area for me even in those situations. A lot of those conflicts are things we're never going to solve.

Ukraine is interesting from the standpoint that it doesn't have a direct impact to us, but depending on the truth of what's happening, it could have a long-term impact to us. Taiwan is a situation that we should be fully aware of, because economically, that would have a major impact on us. Call it nationalism or whatever you want, but I fully believe that you take care of your house first and once you're in a good place, then you help others. Right now, our house is a shitshow.

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:40 am Right now, our house is a shitshow.

No truer words ever spoken! Just from a military standpoint.....Still got some old Soldiers of mine that hit me up and they are just counting down the days till retirement. I saw it coming when I was at my 16/17 year mark with how the high up brass wanted to be more touchy-feely and worry too much about peoples feelings. All that extra training took away from what a Soldier should be learning...Shooting, Moving and Communicating.

If the US was to enter any kind of conflict with Russia or China right now, it will not be good at all. We've spent 20+ years on COIN (counter insurgency) and the senior leaders today who joined 2000 have no clue how to fight a conventional fight. The American public doesn't have the stomach for what a conventional fight would look like in terms of casualties. I hope to god it never comes to that as we need a good 10 years to get the mindset and training back to where it should be. I think Russia/China knows this and that is why they are okay with pressing the issue a little too far, something they wouldn't have done prior to 9/11

I hate to say so bluntly, but a large portion of Americans don't have the mental capacity to comprehend quantities of death. 10, 10,000 or 100,000, most wouldn't see it as more than a blip in the news. It's only as big of a deal as the TV tells them it is.

I get that war today would look much different than war 25 or 50 years ago. But it should be really apparent to people that we have a major problem so many people in the services and in our law enforcement are looking to get out. I know people will point to enlistment numbers to argue that we haven't had a massive decline in active personnel in the military since it initially dropped under Obama, but they don't understand that it's a make-up shift during the last decade. It's a quality argument, not quantity.

The newest spin is that the increased gas prices, supply chain issues and inflation are all due to the Russia/Ukraine thing.

Ukrainian history with Russia is just so complicated. They have fought and been allies for centuries. Once the Soviet Union came to be Ukraine was the #2 and Russia views them as a little brother. As far as the 85%, that is probably accurate but it is eastern Ukraine, not western. Ukraine has been victimized its entire history and Eastern always had closer ties with Russia where Western was always closer with the Lithuanian and then Austrian empire and now they have close ties to Poland. Kiev was really the cultural epicenter of this part of the world and was a thriving city before St. Petersburg and Moscow were a thing. Dating to this conflict its not so simple but I'll make it as quick as I can.

in 2014 Ukraine was to sign a deal to be closer partners to Europe and set a path to join EU (not NATO) if they could fix some things like extreme corruption. The day the deal was to be signed the Kremlin leaning President Yanukovych backed out and signed a deal with Russia against his people's will. That is when Maidan Revolution started. During this time Putin sent in his thugs and literally shot and killed unarmed protesters. This lasted months and during this time Putin held snap "elections" in Crimea and the Donbas (where the war has been for 7-8 years) and they overwhelmingly voted to be independent and states of Russia. This is when the war in the Donbas started. I won't cover the last 8 years but essentially Ukraine refuses to acknowledge it as it was just Russia and the Kremlin doing what they do as they don't want their prized ally to lean west. Putin has said many times he does not view Ukraine as a separate country and it is the biggest mistake they aren't with Russia and can't succeed without them.

I would say now in the Donbas 90% leans Russia but that is because 2 million have fled to Ukraine (controlled Ukraine) since then so the ones who are left are true Russian loyalists and doing the fighting. 90% of the rest of Ukraine either hates Russia or just wants peace but they are a proud people and want their independence and want to work closer with the west as they have been Russia's ally a long time and they are not happy with what it offers.

As far as current situation Putin's demands are insane and they will never do so war is going to happen. I would guess it starts tonight or tomorrow night based on the last few missions I've flown.

I can't point to an article but if you are really interested in the fascinating history of Ukraine there is a book "The Gates of Europe" that covers it super well.

off topic but..

do people not realize Antifa is Anti Fascist?

I notice the word Fascist being thrown around a lot about Canada which is hilarious but then the conservative argument is always "Well BLM and Antifa got away with it". Do these people not realize theyre on the same side? Antifa and being against fascism is the same fucking thing.

wdoupis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:24 pm I can't point to an article but if you are really interested in the fascinating history of Ukraine there is a book "The Gates of Europe" that covers it super well.

May have to look up that book.

What part of Ukraine you in? Still need to travel there some day, wife is okay with it before all this shit started

wdoupis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:24 pm I can't point to an article but if you are really interested in the fascinating history of Ukraine there is a book "The Gates of Europe" that covers it super well.

I’ve been watching some bad ass breakdowns on YouTube of the history and the “why” and they have been so helpful and eye opening.

Pretty incredible to see it unfold as it has.

I’m a huge history nerd.

Many Ukrainians also switched sides and sided with the Germans in WW2 when the German invasion of the USSR started. There were even Ukrainian SS units that participated in rounding up Jews and other “undesirables” as the Germans initially rolled through the USSR. They also carried out massacres of Russian villages and towns. That has never really been forgotten by older generations of Russians.

Putin is authorizing a "special military operation" right now, while the US is speaking at the UN.

Has a goal to "demilitarize" and "remove neo Nazis."

Reports of explosions in Kramtorsk, which is north of Shaktar (about 80 miles in) and news is reporting forces entering from the south. This is looking bad.

https://www.twitch.tv/abaftabeam

Watching this stream, just saw flashes on this stream in Karkav. Also reporting explosions in Kyiv.

Reports that Russian airborne troops have already taken control of Kyiv's main airport.

I am in Kramatorsk. I saw several ballistic missiles flying overhead towards the military airport here. They are bombing all airports and military establishments nationwide

wdoupis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:01 am I am in Kramatorsk. I saw several ballistic missiles flying overhead towards the military airport here. They are bombing all airports and military establishments nationwide

That has to be completely surreal. Stay safe and good luck.

Wild to see the videos of the Ukraine military out in the streets, getting IDs on 18-60yo and handing them all guns/conscripting them on the spot. Just stacks of military grade rifles on the trucks being giving out like candy in a parade.

It's crazy to see live camera feeds of people out in Kyiv on the south side of the city, driving/walking around like it's normal life.