NDL Forum

Question, why do folks think preseason polls are irrelevant? I think it's quite the opposite.

TJW489 wrote:Im ready for my 2nd season already, I thought I would crack that top 25 one last time

I had you #26. I debated between you and Tennessee and went with the SEC conference. I honestly took 45 minutes to do my poll this last poll. I looked through many things all the way from 1-25.

Sorry TJ

BFiVL wrote:Question, why do folks think preseason polls are irrelevant? I think it's quite the opposite.

+1

Quest4Gold wrote:

TJW489 wrote:Im ready for my 2nd season already, I thought I would crack that top 25 one last time

I had you #26. I debated between you and Tennessee and went with the SEC conference.

+1

I kid

Ask autiger if those preseason polls in 04 were irrelevant. Lol people's champ 04!!!!

shel311 wrote:

nick wrote:that debacle year with OU/UT and TTU, Mack Brown didnt have OU in their top 25 or something ridiculous.

If true or something similar, then Biffy is spot on.

Interesting stuff, I never thought it went on to that extent in real life.

take it with a grain of salt cuz nick is some sort of OU fan

...but i recall Saban doing something weird with OSU last year

VeniVediV1ci wrote:

shel311 wrote:

nick wrote:that debacle year with OU/UT and TTU, Mack Brown didnt have OU in their top 25 or something ridiculous.

If true or something similar, then Biffy is spot on.

Interesting stuff, I never thought it went on to that extent in real life.

take it with a grain of salt cuz nick is some sort of OU fan

...but i recall Saban doing something weird with OSU last year

He voted em 4. Air Force coach had em at 5.

Interesting that 51 2nd place votes for Florida, 22 for Michigan State and 9 for Oklahoma State and Oklahoma State gets the nod. I would say the polls didnt really matter in this instance. The Massey and how it rated SoS for Florida and MSU due to teams in the conference that had a majority of their games as sim losses seems a bit too heavy in this scenario.

yougoogelizer wrote:Interesting that 51 2nd place votes for Florida, 22 for Michigan State and 9 for Oklahoma State and Oklahoma State gets the nod. I would say the polls didnt really matter in this instance. The Massey and how it rated SoS for Florida and MSU due to teams in the conference that had a majority of their games as sim losses seems a bit too heavy in this scenario.

yougoogelizer wrote:Interesting that 51 2nd place votes for Florida, 22 for Michigan State and 9 for Oklahoma State and Oklahoma State gets the nod. I would say the polls didnt really matter in this instance. The Massey and how it rated SoS for Florida and MSU due to teams in the conference that had a majority of their games as sim losses seems a bit too heavy in this scenario.

The opposite is true. Since they were all log jammed at the top it made the polls an ultimate non factor but if one of those teams had folks vote them at say 8 or 10, then the poll changes who is in the game.

nick wrote:

shel311 wrote:

BFiVL wrote:

VeniVediV1ci wrote:

UclaMac wrote:The best part about seeing everyones final poll is finding out who doesnt like who. Case in point you see pretty much the entire league voting someone in a certain range, then the other coaches not even putting a vote for that team or voting them super low. I always love that!

it's really immature and shouldn't have a place in the voting process, but then again sometimes honest mistakes are made and people are left out.

In reality i think the poll only matters for the title game, but there are some curious selections across the board

They do it in real life why would it not fly here? Not disagreeing its immature but we are a sim league.

Honest question as I don't know, have we ever seen a published final coaches poll that has a team that is ranked, say, #5 overall or whatever that another coach completely leaves out of his top 25?

I mean, of course, some will have teams a lot lower or higher or whatever, but have we ever seen a discrepancy that high? Not that I know of.

But Veni is right, there are honest mistakes, but it's curious seeing certain guy(s) ranked really high and left out of only 1 or 2 polls completely, but 1 or both of those guys are known to not like that person at all.

But its a double edged sword. What if, just hypothetically, a team plays me, and I feel they were "cheese" or whatever u wanna use, not "5/5 ndl" so i dock them and its so bad i give them 1's... why should I reward someone I feel isnt even NDL worthy with a high ranking in the polls? They wont ever see a ranking from me, and they can gladly ask me about it and i'll let them know.

IF a BUNCH of people are missing you on their polls.. then its on you as how you play. You went 10-2 and in the process 10 owners no longer wanna play/vote for you, thats on you.

While I think you have a valid point Nick, but I also think that personal feelings like that should not be put into polls. I think the commishes, and people that run the farm do a great job of screening people coming into the NDL. Are there some people in this league that I think are questionable sure, as I am pretty sure there are some coaches that think i'm questionable, but I dont think personal feeling should rate a team in the polls. I think when I see with an average ranking of like 9 or something then to see some coaches not even rank them speaks to the character of that coach. But again its everyone's choice to vote how they please.

I think we got it exactly right, we have multiple teams with a legit claim to the #2 spot and Oklahoma State gets the nod party because of the recognition, limited though it may be, of when their loss took place.

fsupenguin wrote:I think we got it exactly right, we have multiple teams with a legit claim to the #2 spot and Oklahoma State gets the nod party because of the recognition, limited though it may be, of when their loss took place.

I think "WE" as a group got it right also, but the Massey ratings are not "we" in my opinion.

UclaMac wrote:

nick wrote:

shel311 wrote:

BFiVL wrote:

VeniVediV1ci wrote:
it's really immature and shouldn't have a place in the voting process, but then again sometimes honest mistakes are made and people are left out.

In reality i think the poll only matters for the title game, but there are some curious selections across the board

They do it in real life why would it not fly here? Not disagreeing its immature but we are a sim league.

Honest question as I don't know, have we ever seen a published final coaches poll that has a team that is ranked, say, #5 overall or whatever that another coach completely leaves out of his top 25?

I mean, of course, some will have teams a lot lower or higher or whatever, but have we ever seen a discrepancy that high? Not that I know of.

But Veni is right, there are honest mistakes, but it's curious seeing certain guy(s) ranked really high and left out of only 1 or 2 polls completely, but 1 or both of those guys are known to not like that person at all.

But its a double edged sword. What if, just hypothetically, a team plays me, and I feel they were "cheese" or whatever u wanna use, not "5/5 ndl" so i dock them and its so bad i give them 1's... why should I reward someone I feel isnt even NDL worthy with a high ranking in the polls? They wont ever see a ranking from me, and they can gladly ask me about it and i'll let them know.

IF a BUNCH of people are missing you on their polls.. then its on you as how you play. You went 10-2 and in the process 10 owners no longer wanna play/vote for you, thats on you.

While I think you have a valid point Nick, but I also think that personal feelings like that should not be put into polls. I think the commishes, and people that run the farm do a great job of screening people coming into the NDL. Are there some people in this league that I think are questionable sure, as I am pretty sure there are some coaches that think i'm questionable, but I dont think personal feeling should rate a team in the polls. I think when I see with an average ranking of like 9 or something then to see some coaches not even rank them speaks to the character of that coach. But again its everyone's choice to vote how they please.

Im not so much in the mood to debate so ill just say my piece from this.

- Personal feelings are aside. if i dock you, i dock your rankings. you dont deserve the ranking you got by the play you got (if i give u a 0-1 and then dont rank you)
- the NDL does a great job at weeding out bad players...when we have an abundance of members in the farm that make competition. Took me 13 seasons of begging and JeffMo quitting/Nole taking over to make the NDL, and now you can make it by simply surviving the farm schedule.
- a lot of coaches vote a team in x range, because a lot of coaches dont face that team so vote based on record. 84 votes, 12 games/year, 72 right there probably wont even know how you play.
- someone not voting you has nothing to do with their character, but to do with yours. I'm the bad apple on the NDL (well was before) cause I shit talked and made everyones life miserable, but i never get "unvoted" (is that even a word) because I maintain a 100% coach report and make the GAME enjoyable for others.

UclaMac wrote: pretty sure there are some coaches that think i'm questionable, but I dont think personal feeling should rate a team in the polls.

of course they enter into decisions. If I play someone who i think is "shady", 1st i'd address it in a mature way on AIM or PM after the game. Secondly, they'd never get my vote. If a guy is 'cheesing' his way to an 11-1 record, why would anyone reward that person?

All that said, this rarely, if ever happens in the NDL.

then again, what nick and I are mentioning arent necesarily "personal feelings"

there are a few guys im not a fan of in here, that would never affect how i voted for them.

playing style would

I'm right there with Nick and AJ. If I've played someone and had a previous issue or I know that they play a suspect style of play, I'll dock them in the rankings. It may not be as drastic as completely leaving an 11-1 team off of the ballot, but you can be assured that they are the last 1 loss team listed or even behind the 2 loss teams. If I'm going to dock someone in the reports, I'm likely hitting them in the rankings too. I think Nick makes a great point... if it's happening more than once or twice to you, the issue likely isn't with the guys voting.

Hey Nick and anyone else that thinks i'm trying to debate them or tell them they're wrong, that's not what I am saying at all. I think its good to have a discussion on these things and air out some point of views. I think you have a very valid point Nick and others just like a previous post said we as a NDL family should use pm's more and say what we think rather than docking someone in coaching reports and taking it out on the polls. Then at least if that coach that you feel cheesed you does it again, then you know its not for the lack of not knowing. I think its shady that someone would dock someone in the polls or coaching report and not even have a discussion with that coach telling them what you thought was cheesy. And like I said if that conversation took place and that coach still does the same thing than by all means dock em away!

I have played two full seasons now and there has only been one person I have played that entered the realm of being "lobby" or "cheese." That person is not in the NDL anymore so that is good news for me anyway. I think 99% of the people in this league play straight. I will say i am more lenient because that is what makes the league interesting; facing different personalities, offenses, defenses, and even risk takers. Would become old very fast to play the same clone every single game with a different jersey on.

nick wrote:

UclaMac wrote:

nick wrote:

shel311 wrote:

BFiVL wrote:
They do it in real life why would it not fly here? Not disagreeing its immature but we are a sim league.

Honest question as I don't know, have we ever seen a published final coaches poll that has a team that is ranked, say, #5 overall or whatever that another coach completely leaves out of his top 25?

I mean, of course, some will have teams a lot lower or higher or whatever, but have we ever seen a discrepancy that high? Not that I know of.

But Veni is right, there are honest mistakes, but it's curious seeing certain guy(s) ranked really high and left out of only 1 or 2 polls completely, but 1 or both of those guys are known to not like that person at all.

But its a double edged sword. What if, just hypothetically, a team plays me, and I feel they were "cheese" or whatever u wanna use, not "5/5 ndl" so i dock them and its so bad i give them 1's... why should I reward someone I feel isnt even NDL worthy with a high ranking in the polls? They wont ever see a ranking from me, and they can gladly ask me about it and i'll let them know.

IF a BUNCH of people are missing you on their polls.. then its on you as how you play. You went 10-2 and in the process 10 owners no longer wanna play/vote for you, thats on you.

While I think you have a valid point Nick, but I also think that personal feelings like that should not be put into polls. I think the commishes, and people that run the farm do a great job of screening people coming into the NDL. Are there some people in this league that I think are questionable sure, as I am pretty sure there are some coaches that think i'm questionable, but I dont think personal feeling should rate a team in the polls. I think when I see with an average ranking of like 9 or something then to see some coaches not even rank them speaks to the character of that coach. But again its everyone's choice to vote how they please.

Im not so much in the mood to debate so ill just say my piece from this.

- Personal feelings are aside. if i dock you, i dock your rankings. you dont deserve the ranking you got by the play you got (if i give u a 0-1 and then dont rank you)
- the NDL does a great job at weeding out bad players...when we have an abundance of members in the farm that make competition. Took me 13 seasons of begging and JeffMo quitting/Nole taking over to make the NDL, and now you can make it by simply surviving the farm schedule.
- a lot of coaches vote a team in x range, because a lot of coaches dont face that team so vote based on record. 84 votes, 12 games/year, 72 right there probably wont even know how you play.
- someone not voting you has nothing to do with their character, but to do with yours. I'm the bad apple on the NDL (well was before) cause I shit talked and made everyones life miserable, but i never get "unvoted" (is that even a word) because I maintain a 100% coach report and make the GAME enjoyable for others.

I actually agree with you for once man. If I rate you poor on a coaches report, I damn sure am not going to reward you going forward throughout a season. If a coach goes 10-2/11-1 and 3 of his opponents don't rank him, that his problem. If it looks like shit and smells like shit, it's probably shit. It has nothing to do with personal feelings. There is a ton of grey area shit that flies now that wouldn't have back in the day. But it is what it is. I'll reflect my opinion via coaches reports and polls. If it bothers anyone don't play like a douche and push the boundaries of realism for the sake of winning. Especially when you have the better team to begin with. A lot of tactics and so-called strategies aren't even necessary on this game, which makes it all the more laughable when some resort to it. At any rate it doesn't matter, as 90% of the league will vote off records and schedules. Even if you got a guy out there not voting for you cause you slept with his mama it won't matter. The point is moot, it is merely interesting.

SuperJakeB wrote:I have played two full seasons now and there has only been one person I have played that entered the realm of being "lobby" or "cheese." That person is not in the NDL anymore so that is good news for me anyway. I think 99% of the people in this league play straight. I will say i am more lenient because that is what makes the league interesting; facing different personalities, offenses, defenses, and even risk takers. Would become old very fast to play the same clone every single game with a different jersey on.

And thats what makes the league so cool. Everyone plays just a bit difference, some big passers, some big runners, some inbetween, some really good option guys in here too. But with all that said, 99% is super sim and out to just have a good time.