NDL Forum

brwnbear wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote:

Crowes wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote:

DRiccio21 wrote:you've lost me.

i make a 40 million bucks. i put 20 mil into apple, 20 mil into google.

i'm taxed when i earn the 40 mil. when i buy apple and google, thats using after tax money. i sit on those positions until i die, i'm never taxed on them. if i sell them at any point for a profit, i pay a capital gains tax on it.

Woah before you guys go attacking me on this subject, this is where I have no clue on stocks. Why own a piece of the company if you're not sharing in the profits until you sell? By the way doing a little googling of google and apple and dividends and people are wondering why they're not paying dividends.

Also, is someone going to actually invest like this?

I dont think its really as simple as dave put it. Numerous ways around capital gains and income taxes.

Okay so going back to what I originally said about being taxed more percentage-wise. If someone in the 1% is paying capital gains taxes and income taxes they actually pay less in all taxes than what I pay in taxes as a percentage of their yearly all around income because basically all of my taxes are just income from my job which would be 25% not including SS and Medicare tax. Am I correct in stating that?

No, you have an incorrect understanding of the federal tax law. The federal tax law is based on a marginal tax.

for joint tax filers:
for the first $16K you pay 10%
on the next $49K you pay 15%
on the next $63K you pay 25%
Above 128K and up to $212K = 28%

You would have to earn a minimu of $350,000 (top 1%) to average 25%

You keep saying 350,000 is top 1% that is false.

Please define it for me then? Since the IRS is wrong.

shift, at this point, i believe you're trying to fuck with us.

http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/04 ... e-percent/

Shiftdnb wrote: You keep saying 350,000 is top 1% that is false.

NO IT'S NOT!!!

Jesus, have you read a single link anybody has posted, or have you just been determined to force the 85,000 links you've posted down our throats and make us believe what you believe???

Shift, you need to figure out which argument you want to stick with, instead of shifting between the ones when you feel they fit your argument best. Are you after:

1) The top 1% of OVERALL NET WORTH

or

2) The top 1% of ANNUAL INCOME?

Stop shifting between the two arguments and pick one already! Because if you're after the top 1% of net worth, then you're a socialist and you just want to take from those who have worth, because you don't think it's fair that they have all that money.

If you are after #2, then you're after those work hard for their money and bring in a bunch every year, and those people are ALREADY paying more taxes than you, by a wide margin.

Make your selection now!

jsence2 wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote: You keep saying 350,000 is top 1% that is false.

NO IT'S NOT!!!

Jesus, have you read a single link anybody has posted, or have you just been determined to force the 85,000 links you've posted down our throats and make us believe what you believe???

Shift, you need to figure out which argument you want to stick with, instead of shifting between the ones when you feel they fit your argument best. Are you after:

1) The top 1% of OVERALL NET WORTH

or

2) The top 1% of ANNUAL INCOME?

Stop shifting between the two arguments and pick one already! Because if you're after the top 1% of net worth, then you're a socialist and you just want to take from those who have worth, because you don't think it's fair that they have all that money.

If you are after #2, then you're after those work hard for their money and bring in a bunch every year, and those people are ALREADY paying more taxes than you, by a wide margin.

Make your selection now!

Whoever the fuck the top 1% is who own 46% of Americas wealth

Shiftdnb wrote:

jsence2 wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote: You keep saying 350,000 is top 1% that is false.

NO IT'S NOT!!!

Jesus, have you read a single link anybody has posted, or have you just been determined to force the 85,000 links you've posted down our throats and make us believe what you believe???

Shift, you need to figure out which argument you want to stick with, instead of shifting between the ones when you feel they fit your argument best. Are you after:

1) The top 1% of OVERALL NET WORTH

or

2) The top 1% of ANNUAL INCOME?

Stop shifting between the two arguments and pick one already! Because if you're after the top 1% of net worth, then you're a socialist and you just want to take from those who have worth, because you don't think it's fair that they have all that money.

If you are after #2, then you're after those work hard for their money and bring in a bunch every year, and those people are ALREADY paying more taxes than you, by a wide margin.

Make your selection now!

Whoever the fuck the top 1% is who own 46% of Americas wealth

honestly shift. if you want my opinion, just concede. your view isnt gonna change, neither is the 14 people you're arguing with who all fan boy daves opinions. you have your thoughts, they have theres.

Shiftdnb wrote:Whoever the fuck the top 1% is who own 46% of Americas wealth

Then you just proved what we've all said--you're not after the end of corruption, you're wanting things to be "fair and equal" and this all boils down to jealousy and wanting a socialistic society. What you just said speaks volumes above everything else you've said. You want the government to take from those who "have wealth" simply because they have it and others don't. That's socialism.

When they talk about taxing the top 1% more. I would assume that they are talking about closing loopholes in the corp taxes.. And creating a new tax bracket.

Because the irs figures you all keep posting is absurd if they consider anyone over 350k top 1% much less what was it 35 or 50 k being the top 50%. Shit if you make less then 45k as a couple in San Francisco your considered to be at the poverty lvl because of the cost of living.

Also there is a big gap I would think in those who make 350k a year and those who are making 1m+ a year etc.

But I m not I gonna pretend I know all the ends and out of the tax codes, and how they actually work and the work arounds and all that bs. I ll leave that up to the tax accountants to explain.. And I don't think we have any of those in NDL.

i deal with peoples finances everyday... i only have clients who are in the top 1% and most are in the top .1%.

as a percentage, not many people are truly making over 500k per year.

We dont tax wealth, we tax income.

Taking someone's home, collections, ownership in a company because they have more is than you is sad. If that is your ideal system, it wont stop at millionaires. Soon you will want to take your neighbors car because its nicer than your, your sisters home, because its bigger than yours, your bosses business, because you dont have one.

And you are obviously fucking with us because there is no way you can ignore all these facts.

brwnbear wrote:We dont tax wealth, we tax income.

Taking someone's home, collections, ownership in a company because they have more is than you is sad. If that is your ideal system, it wont stop at millionaires. Soon you will want to take your neighbors car because its nicer than your, your sisters home, because its bigger than yours, your bosses business, because you dont have one.

And you are obviously fucking with us because there is no way you can ignore all these facts.

Or it's just pure jealousy and/or misinformation with no desire (as proven here) to actually know the facts.

I'm done with this argument, it ceased to be a debate when shift refused to acknowledge valid points and chose to simply ignore them.

jsence2 wrote: Or it's just pure jealousy and/or misinformation with no desire (as proven here) to actually know the facts.

First of all you don't fucking no me so watch it

jsence2 wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote:Whoever the fuck the top 1% is who own 46% of Americas wealth

Then you just proved what we've all said--you're not after the end of corruption, you're wanting things to be "fair and equal" and this all boils down to jealousy and wanting a socialistic society. What you just said speaks volumes above everything else you've said. You want the government to take from those who "have wealth" simply because they have it and others don't. That's socialism.

Dude, I told you get rid of all the social welfare and I would still be on board so please stop calling me a socialist. The fucking truth is the gap between the rich and poor is growing every day and this country is going to shit and we're trying to figure out who is going to pay for it. You saw my post on everything I was against and a lot of that had to do with corruption and lobbying. Sure it had taking care of those that can't take care of themselves but I just get shouted down with the fact that people roll around in escalades on welfare so we shouldn't take from the rich to help the poor.

Fuck it I'm done, I don't even know why I'm arguing with you guys, my house, car and truck is paid for.

Shiftdnb wrote:

jsence2 wrote: Or it's just pure jealousy and/or misinformation with no desire (as proven here) to actually know the facts.

First of all you don't fucking no me so watch it

jsence2 wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote:Whoever the fuck the top 1% is who own 46% of Americas wealth

Then you just proved what we've all said--you're not after the end of corruption, you're wanting things to be "fair and equal" and this all boils down to jealousy and wanting a socialistic society. What you just said speaks volumes above everything else you've said. You want the government to take from those who "have wealth" simply because they have it and others don't. That's socialism.

Dude, I told you get rid of all the social welfare and I would still be on board so please stop calling me a socialist. The fucking truth is the gap between the rich and poor is growing every day and this country is going to shit and we're trying to figure out who is going to pay for it. You saw my post on everything I was against and a lot of that had to do with corruption and lobbying. Sure it had taking care of those that can't take care of themselves but I just get shouted down with the fact that people roll around in escalades on welfare so we shouldn't take from the rich to help the poor.

Fuck it I'm done, I don't even know why I'm arguing with you guys, my house, car and truck is paid for.

It's not a personal attack, it's an argument that is given all over the country, every day, and it's based on not knowing the facts and/or being jealous. And you want to know why I say that?

Because when I was in high school and was naive and uneducated on the economy and finance, I said the exact same thing. Want to know why I made the argument you made?

Because I, Jason, myself, was uneducated and jealous in regards to this issue. Once I became educated on it and got over my personal selfish feelings, I realized that it wasn't the system that was broken, it was the people ABUSING the system that needed weeding out, and it was the mismanagement of funds by the government that needs fixed. The system, when run properly, works....but tell me what systems ever run properly at full efficiency???

Socialism is an economic system in which the means of production are either state owned or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively; or a political philosophy advocating such a system. As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs.

You're wanting the government to tax people who have "wealth" simply because they have more wealth than 99% of the rest of the country. That would be state-controlled. That is socialism. It's not an attack on you, it's simply the facts.

Shiftdnb wrote:

jsence2 wrote: Or it's just pure jealousy and/or misinformation with no desire (as proven here) to actually know the facts.

First of all you don't fucking no me so watch it

jsence2 wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote:Whoever the fuck the top 1% is who own 46% of Americas wealth

Then you just proved what we've all said--you're not after the end of corruption, you're wanting things to be "fair and equal" and this all boils down to jealousy and wanting a socialistic society. What you just said speaks volumes above everything else you've said. You want the government to take from those who "have wealth" simply because they have it and others don't. That's socialism.

Dude, I told you get rid of all the social welfare and I would still be on board so please stop calling me a socialist. The fucking truth is the gap between the rich and poor is growing every day and this country is going to shit and we're trying to figure out who is going to pay for it. You saw my post on everything I was against and a lot of that had to do with corruption and lobbying. Sure it had taking care of those that can't take care of themselves but I just get shouted down with the fact that people roll around in escalades on welfare so we shouldn't take from the rich to help the poor.

Fuck it I'm done, I don't even know why I'm arguing with you guys, my house, car and truck is paid for.

jsence2 wrote:Socialism is an economic system in which the means of production are either state owned or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively; or a political philosophy advocating such a system. As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs.

You're wanting the government to tax people who have "wealth" simply because they have more wealth than 99% of the rest of the country. That would be state-controlled. That is socialism. It's not an attack on you, it's simply the facts.

This thread needs a compliance lady.

jsence2 wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote:

jsence2 wrote: Or it's just pure jealousy and/or misinformation with no desire (as proven here) to actually know the facts.

First of all you don't fucking no me so watch it

jsence2 wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote:Whoever the fuck the top 1% is who own 46% of Americas wealth

Then you just proved what we've all said--you're not after the end of corruption, you're wanting things to be "fair and equal" and this all boils down to jealousy and wanting a socialistic society. What you just said speaks volumes above everything else you've said. You want the government to take from those who "have wealth" simply because they have it and others don't. That's socialism.

Dude, I told you get rid of all the social welfare and I would still be on board so please stop calling me a socialist. The fucking truth is the gap between the rich and poor is growing every day and this country is going to shit and we're trying to figure out who is going to pay for it. You saw my post on everything I was against and a lot of that had to do with corruption and lobbying. Sure it had taking care of those that can't take care of themselves but I just get shouted down with the fact that people roll around in escalades on welfare so we shouldn't take from the rich to help the poor.

Fuck it I'm done, I don't even know why I'm arguing with you guys, my house, car and truck is paid for.

It's not a personal attack, it's an argument that is given all over the country, every day, and it's based on not knowing the facts and/or being jealous. And you want to know why I say that?

Because when I was in high school and was naive and uneducated on the economy and finance, I said the exact same thing. Want to know why I made the argument you made?

Because I, Jason, myself, was uneducated and jealous in regards to this issue. Once I became educated on it and got over my personal selfish feelings, I realized that it wasn't the system that was broken, it was the people ABUSING the system that needed weeding out, and it was the mismanagement of funds by the government that needs fixed. The system, when run properly, works....but tell me what systems ever run properly at full efficiency???

I'm neither jealous or misinformed, I just can't argue with 4 different people and get what my actual views are because they are so diverse. I have no reason to be jealous as I'm actually straight financially at this point. Like I said my house, car and truck are paid off, I have no credit card debt, and I have a job that as long as what you guys hold on as ideals dominates than I will be set, I mean fuck I should be fighting along side you just for my job itself. Am I misinformed, about somethings? Probably, taxes being one of them, but my the driving factor, and I obviously haven't been able to communicate that to you guys, is not misinformed and it's the future of this country I worry about. I find it funny cause back during the McCarthy era I could be hunted down and prosecuted just because you think I'm a socialist, but at the same time the top 1% were taxed 91% but yet it wasn't socialism than.

Yep....and a bottle of Coke cost a nickel. You were also coming out of a little period known as the Depression. Apples and oranges, my friend.

During the 30s-50s, if you made less than 100,000 (which is akin to making about 2-3 million in INCOME, not WEALTH) then your marginal taxation rate, when adjusted for inflation, was about 35% or less.

Then the rates increased as salaries increased exponentially less in the 60s. Tell us what happened to our economy when that happened?

jsence2 wrote:Yep....and a bottle of Coke cost a nickel. You were also coming out of a little period known as the Depression. Apples and oranges, my friend.

During the 30s-50s, if you made less than 100,000 (which is akin to making about 2-3 million in INCOME, not WEALTH) then your marginal taxation rate, when adjusted for inflation, was about 35% or less.

Then the rates increased as salaries increased exponentially less in the 60s. Tell us what happened to our economy when that happened?

Okay, this is what is confusing to me. What you have given me doesn't match what I'm seeing. In the 60's tax rates decreased.