Penn St

[trendon]

i can't fathom how you can defend Paterno in this circumstance.

i've taken a step back, i'm taking away all the disgusting thoughts in my head and trying to be rational. he knew something happened and he continually saw the guy with children for almost a decade.

its quite clear to me, he didn't want the distraction or the black mark he knew this would cause his program and he just swept it under the rug hoping it would go away or he'd die before it ever became public.

I'm not defending anyone... I'm simply not implicating him until I have facts. I don't see why that is so hard to understand, especially for someone that is a numbers guy that believes in facts. We don't have them.

You don't know what level that something is. You don't even know if it related to children. So you can't even begin to make the connection to the 2nd part.

There are still so many potential scenarios out there that it's not fair to implicate him yet. (unless you live in Louisiana of course)

Criminally, I am with you and also I strongly dislike that not reporting a crime is a crime. However, if you are talking about Penn State's potentially removing him, well, Paterno has been convicted in the public court and that is all the evidence a business needs to act and I can't disagree with them.

[ReignOnU]

what the hell did Louisiana do to you huhÉ

Heh, I wouldn't expect a foreigner to know the reasoning for that statement. And I'd actually be shocked if more than a small handful got the reference.

ya i didnt get it

Louisiana is the only state in the US where you are guilty until proven innocent when charged, iirc.

[ReignOnU]

i can't fathom how you can defend Paterno in this circumstance.

i've taken a step back, i'm taking away all the disgusting thoughts in my head and trying to be rational. he knew something happened and he continually saw the guy with children for almost a decade.

its quite clear to me, he didn't want the distraction or the black mark he knew this would cause his program and he just swept it under the rug hoping it would go away or he'd die before it ever became public.

I'm not defending anyone... I'm simply not implicating him until I have facts. I don't see why that is so hard to understand, especially for someone that is a numbers guy that believes in facts. We don't have them.

You don't know what level that something is. You don't even know if it related to children. So you can't even begin to make the connection to the 2nd part.

There are still so many potential scenarios out there that it's not fair to implicate him yet. (unless you live in Louisiana of course)

Criminally, I am with you and also I strongly dislike that not reporting a crime is a crime. However, if you are talking about Penn State's potentially removing him, well, Paterno has been convicted in the public court and that is all the evidence a business needs to act and I can't disagree with them.

When dealing with a community like PSU, do you think there is a difference between the mass public court, the media court and the Penn State public court? I certainly don't stand behind him like those in the videos, but I'd have to say, he is getting support from the mass PSU community... much more than I expected actually.

[ReignOnU]

Just to clarify something else that I was curious about regarding State College PD / University PD...

SCPD has no jurisdiction. This is FULLY UPD jurisdiction.

[DRiccio21]

Paterno has brought great happiness to millions of people in the Penn St community, you have to expect some people to give him the benefit of the doubt. they don't know the little kids, they can say they feel horrible and then use a disclaimer and they feel like they are covered with their opinion... kind of like Joe did last night. he dropped the non chalant 'i feel really horrible for those kids, i really do' and then he came with a boisterious 'WE ARE ... PENN STATE' chant. he knows who he is and the power he has and even at 88 he played it perfectly.
people don't wan to see their hero or icon go down like this because they look at him like he's part of their family... the little kids are just horrible accessories.

[trendon]

When dealing with a community like PSU, do you think there is a difference between the mass public court, the media court and the Penn State public court? I certainly don't stand behind him like those in the videos, but I'd have to say, he is getting support from the mass PSU community... much more than I expected actually.

Police are insane. The public is nuts. The media is a disaster. However, the United States Justice System is still a shining example of what is right in this country and, if you ever get confused about that, you needn't look past our most recent two lasses, Casey Anthony and Amanda Knox. You need evidence to convict criminally. I just wanted to put that out there.

The closest example we have to this is the Mike Leach situation in Texas Tech. He was heavily supported but a few kooks in the media went haywire and he was tossed. Paterno could have the whole student body behind him and he will lose his job even if it turns out he knew nothing. People don't think straight as it is, let alone when someone was fucking children in the ass on school property. In fact, I think the focus on Paterno is taking away from the scorn that should be directed at Sandusky.

[shel311]

Paterno was told a child was being fondled in the showers of his own football team.

That's kinda all I need to know, that's plenty enough to tell me he didn't do enough.

[DRiccio21]

In fact, I think the focus on Paterno is taking away from the scorn that should be directed at Sandusky.

well thats definitely true, but the guy is already a goner so its on to the next person. and the next person is anyone who was aware of the situation and did nothing.

[trendon]

In fact, I think the focus on Paterno is taking away from the scorn that should be directed at Sandusky.

well thats definitely true, but the guy is already a goner so its on to the next person. and the next person is anyone who was aware of the situation and did nothing.

Reminds me of the Jeremy Strohmayer case from a decade back. He killed a little girl in a casino and admitted it to Cash. Strohmayer was convicted and then they went after Cash. He was harrassed by the public more than the police.

Edit: Yay Wikipedia!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Strohmeyer

Jeremy Strohmeyer (born October 11, 1978) is a Long Beach, California man who molested and murdered 7-year-old South Los Angeles elementary school student Sherrice Iverson (October 20, 1989 – May 25, 1997)[1] at Primadonna Resort and Casino in Primm, Nevada, on May 25, 1997.

At around this time Strohmeyer's friend, David Cash, entered the restroom and witnessed Strohmeyer forcibly take Iverson into a stall. When Cash looked in from the adjacent stall, he saw Strohmeyer holding his left hand over Iverson's mouth and fondling her with his right. After this, Cash left the restroom and was followed 20 minutes later by Strohmeyer, who immediately confessed to him that he had molested and killed the girl.[3]

Sherrice Iverson's mother demanded that David Cash, Jr., be charged as an accessory, but authorities stated there was not enough evidence connecting him to the actual crime, and Cash was never prosecuted for any offense related to the murder. In the weeks following Strohmeyer's arrest, Cash told the Los Angeles Times that he did not dwell on the murder of Sherrice Iverson. "I'm not going to get upset over somebody else's life. I just worry about myself first. I'm not going to lose sleep over somebody else's problems." He also told the newspaper that the publicity surrounding the case had made it easier for him to "score with women." Cash also told the Long Beach Press-Telegram: "I'm no idiot ... I'll get my money out of this."[10][11]

Cash would go on to face being labeled "the bad Samaritan," and also the target of a campaign by students who attempted to get him kicked out of UC Berkeley for not stopping the crime. Two local Los Angeles radio hosts subsequently held a rally to have Cash expelled from the University of California at Berkeley, but University officials stated that they had no basis to remove him since he was not convicted of any crime. Cash did express equivocal remorse over Iverson's death in a radio interview, stating that "I have a lot of remorse toward the Iverson family. It was a very tragic event...The simple fact remains I don't know this little girl ... I don't know people in Panama or Africa who are killed every day, so I can't feel remorse for them. The only person I know is Jeremy Strohmeyer", but still insisted that he did nothing wrong.[3][12]

[ReignOnU]

When dealing with a community like PSU, do you think there is a difference between the mass public court, the media court and the Penn State public court? I certainly don't stand behind him like those in the videos, but I'd have to say, he is getting support from the mass PSU community... much more than I expected actually.

Police are insane. The public is nuts. The media is a disaster. However, the United States Justice System is still a shining example of what is right in this country and, if you ever get confused about that, you needn't look past our most recent two lasses, Casey Anthony and Amanda Knox. You need evidence to convict criminally. I just wanted to put that out there.

The closest example we have to this is the Mike Leach situation in Texas Tech. He was heavily supported but a few kooks in the media went haywire and he was tossed. Paterno could have the whole student body behind him and he will lose his job even if it turns out he knew nothing. People don't think straight as it is, let alone when someone was fucking children in the ass on school property. In fact, I think the focus on Paterno is taking away from the scorn that should be directed at Sandusky.

It's taking away from a lot more than that. I think it's hiding the real issues.

The mother of the 1998 victim that had a recorded conversation that never did anything further when he wasn't convicted.

The DA that didn't nail him down in 99.

The janitor that saw the oral first hand.

McQ who saw it first hand.

The president that had specific power to remove him from campus.

The president of the 2nd Mile.

The wife of Sandusky that had to know something.

There are just so many more that have explicit direct contact / control.

[ReignOnU]

Paterno was told a child was being fondled in the showers of his own football team.

That's kinda all I need to know, that's plenty enough to tell me he didn't do enough.

That is not fact, therefore you don't know that. As soon as it's fact, I'll be right there with you. I'll turn my misdirected wrath from Dave, earlier, to you now... this time it's deserved.

[trendon]

Nebraska better not lose this game. Ultimately, that's all I care about.

[shel311]

Reign, that's just silly imo.

Paterno is more popular than all of those people combined.

Why in the world would we be talking about sandusky's wife?

This is about paterno for obvious reasons.

[ReignOnU]

When dealing with a community like PSU, do you think there is a difference between the mass public court, the media court and the Penn State public court? I certainly don't stand behind him like those in the videos, but I'd have to say, he is getting support from the mass PSU community... much more than I expected actually.

Police are insane. The public is nuts. The media is a disaster. However, the United States Justice System is still a shining example of what is right in this country and, if you ever get confused about that, you needn't look past our most recent two lasses, Casey Anthony and Amanda Knox. You need evidence to convict criminally. I just wanted to put that out there.

The closest example we have to this is the Mike Leach situation in Texas Tech. He was heavily supported but a few kooks in the media went haywire and he was tossed. Paterno could have the whole student body behind him and he will lose his job even if it turns out he knew nothing. People don't think straight as it is, let alone when someone was fucking children in the ass on school property. In fact, I think the focus on Paterno is taking away from the scorn that should be directed at Sandusky.

It's taking away from a lot more than that. I think it's hiding the real issues.

The mother of the 1998 victim that had a recorded conversation that never did anything further when he wasn't convicted.

The DA that didn't nail him down in 99.

The janitor that saw the oral first hand.

McQ who saw it first hand.

The president that had specific power to remove him from campus.

The president of the 2nd Mile.

The wife of Sandusky that had to know something. Grr... emotion... probably not fair... yet. She must be an idiot though.

There are just so many more that have explicit direct contact / control.

[DRiccio21]

wait, time the fuck out.

you say Sandusky's wife who 'had to know'. but not Paterno?

[shel311]

Paterno was told a child was being fondled in the showers of his own football team.

That's kinda all I need to know, that's plenty enough to tell me he didn't do enough.

That is not fact, therefore you don't know that. As soon as it's fact, I'll be right there with you. I'll turn my misdirected wrath from Dave, earlier, to you now... this time it's deserved.

Better reread that.grand just report before coming at me with that lol.

Why'd paterno tell the grand jury he was told that, then?

[ReignOnU]

Reign, that's just silly imo.

Paterno is more popular than all of those people combined.

Why in the world would we be talking about sandusky's wife?

This is about paterno for obvious reasons.

I was just crossing out his wife.. you beat me to it. As for questioning why, without having any facts, I'd have to wonder how on Earth she didn't know something.

And this isn't about popularity, the statement was made about the REAL issues and the fact that the Paterno story is taking away from it. (hence my quote of that comment) Obviously we're talking about Paterno because of who he is. All of those people I listed are the REAL reasons that this continued on. The people that had 1st hand interaction / accountability that we know as fact.

[nick]

what the hell did Louisiana do to you huhÉ

Heh, I wouldn't expect a foreigner to know the reasoning for that statement. And I'd actually be shocked if more than a small handful got the reference.

ya i didnt get it

Louisiana is the only state in the US where you are guilty until proven innocent when charged, iirc.

ohhh... im pretty sure every state these days is guilty til proven innocent

[shel311]

Paterno was told a child was being fondled in the showers of his own football team.

That's kinda all I need to know, that's plenty enough to tell me he didn't do enough.

That is not fact, therefore you don't know that. As soon as it's fact, I'll be right there with you. I'll turn my misdirected wrath from Dave, earlier, to you now... this time it's deserved.

Ok, got the quote:

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

1. Can we finally stop staying it's not fact therefore we don't know what Paterno was said?

2. Take back the, "this time it's deserved." Take it back now.

You're 0 for 2, Dave and I will be filing lible charges against you!!

[ReignOnU]

Paterno was told a child was being fondled in the showers of his own football team.

That's kinda all I need to know, that's plenty enough to tell me he didn't do enough.

That is not fact, therefore you don't know that. As soon as it's fact, I'll be right there with you. I'll turn my misdirected wrath from Dave, earlier, to you now... this time it's deserved.

Better reread that.grand just report before coming at me with that lol.

Why'd paterno tell the grand jury he was told that, then?

Damn... shel wins. I lose. Dave draws for lack of knocking me out earlier.

It's does specifically say that is what his testimony was. So with that sad, Joe must go... immediately. How the hell I've read that at least 3x and didn't see that specifically is beyond me. The GJ is very clear on what McQ saw, what he told Joe, what Joe testified to hearing (fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.), and what McQ told Schultz/Curley at the meeting. That is fact enough for me to say that Joe didn't do enough from a moral standpoint. I think that's what I was missing in all of this, what exactly Joe knew... how the hell didn't someone shed the light on this earlier today when I was reading all of this!