I am a firm believer in gun control and that they should be outlawed. You go to countries without them and the numbers speak for themselves. However, it is not something that can be implemented after the fact so I don't think it should happen in the US. Bad people will always find a way to get weapons. If there was an easy fix to this situation we would do it, but I, and no else has one or we would have already done it.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:36 pm
by jsence2
Gun control won't work at the state level. It doesn't matter how strict gun laws are in California if you can drive to Nevada, buy a gun, and then drive home.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:41 pm
by Seeitsaveit13
Uuaww wrote:Bad people will always find a way to get weapons.
This.
Fix the people, or the problem isn't fixed. You could get rid of every single gun in the entire country, and bad people would import them from other countries and sell them to other bad people.
Fix the bad people, or bad things will keep happening.
And fixing the people isn't a singular answer, nor is it an easy one. That's why this isn't getting fixed anytime soon. Politicians can argue til they're blue in the face and we can all criticize them and point fingers and blame the dems or the republicans, but it's a people problem.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:18 pm
by jsence2
Seeitsaveit13 wrote:
Uuaww wrote:Bad people will always find a way to get weapons.
This.
Fix the people, or the problem isn't fixed. You could get rid of every single gun in the entire country, and bad people would import them from other countries and sell them to other bad people.
Fix the bad people, or bad things will keep happening.
And fixing the people isn't a singular answer, nor is it an easy one. That's why this isn't getting fixed anytime soon. Politicians can argue til they're blue in the face and we can all criticize them and point fingers and blame the dems or the republicans, but it's a people problem.
But you can severely limit the amount of guns available, thus limiting the amount of violent crime. This is proven in other nations where guns can be imported as well.
By limiting the guns, you can change the culture. I'm not calling for a "ban" on guns, I'm calling for stricter limitations. People don't need fifteen guns. People don't need assault rifles.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:18 pm
by Seeitsaveit13
ReignOnU wrote:I find this amusing... the #1 trending topic on Twitter: #SanBernadino
There's 1 problem with that...
:facepalm:
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:22 pm
by jsence2
A mass shooting consists of four or more victims (either wounded or dead)
This graphic is just a gut shot. Over the last 1,066 days, there have been 1,052 mass shootings in the United States
Throwing some stuff at a wall and may have some misunderstandings here, but this strikes me as odd...
- The guy allegedly met his wife online and went to Saudi Arabia in May/June.
- Has a 6 months old child with her... but it's early December, 6 months back would be May/June... oddly enough, kids don't immediately pop. If it's their kid, then they had to have contact 9 months before that, roughly late summer 2014.
- CAIR had his brother-in-law in front of a press conference within a couple of hours of the incident and within an hour or so of the name officially coming out.
- His brother-in-law, her brother, lives relatively local to him
- That CAIR press conference looked pretty odd.
Things that make you go hmm...
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:02 pm
by ReignOnU
Reddit normally provides for some good laughs...
[–]Xanthine42 [score hidden] 7 minutes ago
The black Ford Expedition was a locally rented car from 3 or 4 days ago, was due to be returned yesterday, which explains the Utah plates
permalink
[–]GOTaSMALL1 [score hidden] 6 minutes ago
They aren't getting their deposit back.
permalinkparent
[–]hansgruberr [score hidden] 4 minutes ago
Insurance won't cover it. Act of God
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:04 pm
by ReignOnU
...and FBI agent just said that he came back from overseas in July 2014. That makes more sense.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:13 pm
by ReignOnU
Chief Burguan has handled this stuff better than any law enforcement official I've ever seen. He's absolutely awesome.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:22 pm
by nick
jsence2 wrote:A mass shooting consists of four or more victims (either wounded or dead)
This graphic is just a gut shot. Over the last 1,066 days, there have been 1,052 mass shootings in the United States
but dont worry, the fleeing warzone immigrants that want a peaceful life are gonna be coming over to terrorize america!!!!!
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:50 pm
by jsence2
Wow
At the house in the Redlands, “the search that took place revealed that there were 12 pipe bomb type devices found in that house or in the garage of that house,” Burguan continues. “There were also hundreds of tools, many of which could be used to construct IEDs or pipe bombs.”
Another 2,000 9mm rounds found at the house, over 2,500 223 rounds, and there were several hundred 22 long rifle rounds that were found there.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:15 pm
by ReignOnU
It's a lot, but not overly stunning that they have so much ammo on hand.
A.) They were obviously preparing for a large fight.
B.) Gun owners often have far more ammo than they need because they buy it in bulk, at a discounted rate. Buying 100 rounds of .223 is around $45, while 1000 rounds is about $320. That's a pretty solid discount.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:50 pm
by jsence2
I'm behind every single one of Bernie Sanders' proposals on gun control, ESPECIALLY the part about making gun trafficking a federal offense.
The San Bernardino shooting was the 355th mass shooting this year. Gun violence has reached epidemic levels in the United States. Over the past decade, 275,000 Americans have been killed by guns. …
We need to significantly expand and improve background checks. Who is arguing that people who should not have guns because of a criminal background, because of mental problems should not be able to purchase guns? Very few Americans disagree with that.
We need to renew the assault weapons ban. We need to end the sale of high capacity magazines.
We need to make gun trafficking a federal crime and give law enforcement the tools they need to get illegal guns off the streets.
We need to close the gun show loophole, as well as loopholes that allow gun purchasers to buy a gun after the waiting period expires without a completed background check.
We need to close loopholes that allow domestic abusers and stalkers to obtain guns.
We need to strengthen penalties for straw purchasers who buy guns from licensed dealers on behalf of someone prohibited from purchasing a gun.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:18 pm
by Cnasty
Haven't read any follow up yet.
Is everyone involved dead?
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:57 pm
by ReignOnU
14 dead, 21 injured. Injured cop likely to go home today.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:17 pm
by ReignOnU
jsence2 wrote:I'm behind every single one of Bernie Sanders' proposals on gun control, ESPECIALLY the part about making gun trafficking a federal offense.
The San Bernardino shooting was the 355th mass shooting this year. Gun violence has reached epidemic levels in the United States. Over the past decade, 275,000 Americans have been killed by guns. … CDC statistics show that deaths from guns have been consistently between 27k - 35k since 1975. With the peak happening in the early 90s, just prior to the assault weapons ban. This isn't a 'last decade' issue. In fact, the last decade would show a decline over the previous 2. Read below on the ban.
We need to significantly expand and improve background checks. Who is arguing that people who should not have guns because of a criminal background, because of mental problems should not be able to purchase guns? Very few Americans disagree with that. No problem with that.
We need to renew the assault weapons ban. We need to end the sale of high capacity magazines. 1.) Very slim chance of this happening due to the way the original proposal was written and how the most recent proposals have been set up. 2.) It had a small, at most impact on violence. See the above information. Also, the BJS has a chart that specifically shows that during the ban, criminals shifted their weapon of choice to handguns. The narrative is that handguns became far more widespread and as a result, the ban on assault weapons was offset. While violence with assault weapons decreased by 45% (the crazy stat you'll find), that stat is a bit misleading because AW violence was less than a 5% contributor to all gun violence. Generally speaking, this was an image move that looked like something major, but really wasn't.
We need to make gun trafficking a federal crime and give law enforcement the tools they need to get illegal guns off the streets. Absolutely agree.
We need to close the gun show loophole, as well as loopholes that allow gun purchasers to buy a gun after the waiting period expires without a completed background check. I'm not a fan of the waiting period. I think the check needs to be done on everyone, regardless of time, but the process should also be efficient.
We need to close loopholes that allow domestic abusers and stalkers to obtain guns. I think this is redundant with the idea that there should be a high-level of control over who can purchase a gun. It seems to be common sense that someone guilty of these crimes would not be allowed to purchase. I also think that it's fair, within laws, to force convicted individuals to relinquish their registered guns.
We need to strengthen penalties for straw purchasers who buy guns from licensed dealers on behalf of someone prohibited from purchasing a gun. Absolutely agree.
My thoughts are probably pretty similar to JD's. I don't mind if it's tough to acquire a gun, but someone that has no reasonable reason to be denied should be able to get one. I also don't have an issue with mandatory training and inspection. None of that bothers me at all.
As for your quote... I embedded my comments. To be clear, guns should be legal for those that "deserve" (for lack of a better word right now) to own them. With that said, I'm not a gun owner currently. But I feel it should be my choice to equip myself accordingly and use responsibly.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:16 pm
by Cnasty
ReignOnU wrote:14 dead, 21 injured. Injured cop likely to go home today.
I knew once I submitted I should have edited.
I meant from the suspect aspect. Sorry.
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:45 pm
by GeorgesGoons
jsence2 wrote:
The San Bernardino shooting was the 355th mass shooting this year. Gun violence has reached epidemic levels in the United States. Over the past decade, 275,000 Americans have been killed by guns. …
I am curious how many of those were killed by "law abiding" gun owners. Obviously they aren't law abiding if they committed murder but 1) how many of the people that killed someone obtained their guns legally, I am sure the gang bangers out there aren't buying their guns legally. 2) How many in those numbers are justifiable kills, whether it is a cop killing someone or some random grandma killing a home invader. I would bet that the 275k killed would be greatly reduced.
I'm just too lazy to find the real answers
Re: WTF?
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:53 pm
by GeorgesGoons
jsence2 wrote:A mass shooting consists of four or more victims (either wounded or dead)
This graphic is just a gut shot. Over the last 1,066 days, there have been 1,052 mass shootings in the United States
So where are you getting the definition for mass shooting? Here is what I found:
Mass shootings can be a form of mass murder, which is commonly categorized as the murder of four or more people with no cooling off period.[1] According to CNN, a mass shooting is defined as having four or more fatalities, not including gang killings or slayings that involve the death of multiple family members.[3]In "Behind the Bloodshed", a report by USAToday, a mass killing is defined as any incident in which four or more were killed and also includes family killings.[4]
Spoiler!
[1]Follman, Mark. "What Exactly Is A Mass Shooting". Mother Jones. Retrieved August 9, 2015. http://hsx.sagepub.com/content/18/1/105.short
[3]Christensen, Jen (August 28, 2015). "Why the U.S. has the most mass shootings". CNN.
[4]"Behind the Bloodshed". USA Today. Retrieved 3 December 2015.
Chicago consists of 49 of such shootings by your definition. Chicago has some strict gun laws right?