Presidential Debate

[SIRLOIN]

The thing about third parties is that you really are throwing your vote away. I do believe you should vote your conscience and if you truly support one of the other candidates then you should vote for him. In the end, it is going to be wasted though. Maybe down the road but not in the near future.

While true in the literal sense(though I'm not sure I'd say it's wasted, but I get what you're saying) and definitely the short term, I know I'm speaking the obvious, but if everyone collectively thinks this way then the 2 party system will never be challenged.

What you both said if true without a doubt. I've only voted for a major party presidential candidate once and it was because I so strongly wanted to get rid of the incumbent.

I look at voting as a powerful form of peaceful protest. It's our chance as Americans to peacefully and legally stage a revolution every four years. But as long as the two party system and the "unassociated but associated" powers behind it remain, the people's power to actually change our government to something that may better suit the needs of our country as a whole now and in the future is effectively zero. The Democrats and Republicans like to appear as if they are good and evil and vice versa but the fact of the matter is the it really doesn't matter which party is going to be in power. Our government and economy are monstrously huge entities and it will take more than four to eight years and one or two presidents and congresses to change what's going on. To affect that type of change in a realistic timespan would require a complete change in thinking and policy. That won't happen as long as the two main parties are calling each other names and saying it's all each other's fault when really it's both of their faults. So I'll just continue throwing away my vote and hopelessly hoping that my one vote can actually be the one that causes a change.

impose TERM LIMITS for the house and senate and this should change right? I would think so. Why there are not term limits at every level of the government is beyond me. Why not have it the same as a president's. 4 years and rerun. Or even give one in office 6 years and then they are done no matter what

KDOG I'M ALL FOR TERM LIMITS FOR THE GOP ONLY!!!!!

[VeniVediV1ci]

impose TERM LIMITS for the house and senate and this should change right? I would think so. Why there are not term limits at every level of the government is beyond me. Why not have it the same as a president's. 4 years and rerun. Or even give one in office 6 years and then they are done no matter what

how else would they take advantage of voting for pay raises if that happened

[UclaMac]

I think what we all have to remember is that when the election is done and one of these morons wins, we will all lose as Americans. Sorry guys but both these baby kissers are liars and frauds!

[cdub21]

im voting for gary johnson who is the libertarian candidate because it might be "wasted" right now, all it takes is people to see after the election that he got x% of the vote, that people actually voted for him, maybe next time they will actually vote for him/that party because it might actually help to keep increasing that number every year or election. romney does what he has to keep up and give himself a chance which is mostly lying or changing postion, and obama is full of false promises and says what he has to for people to give him his 2nd term which was almost given 4 years ago anyway. if obama did everything he said and actually tried to bring change but failed miserably id be more willing to vote for him.

[autiger730]

im voting for gary johnson who is the libertarian candidate because it might be "wasted" right now, all it takes is people to see after the election that he got x% of the vote, that people actually voted for him, maybe next time they will actually vote for him/that party because it might actually help to keep increasing that number every year or election. romney does what he has to keep up and give himself a chance which is mostly lying or changing postion, and obama is full of false promises and says what he has to for people to give him his 2nd term which was almost given 4 years ago anyway. if obama did everything he said and actually tried to bring change but failed miserably id be more willing to vote for him.

Two words: Ross Perot

People actually had heard of him. No one even knows Gary Johnson is running, much less his position on anything or even who he is. Its going to take a big sweeping movement to get a third party going.

[cdub21]

im voting for gary johnson who is the libertarian candidate because it might be "wasted" right now, all it takes is people to see after the election that he got x% of the vote, that people actually voted for him, maybe next time they will actually vote for him/that party because it might actually help to keep increasing that number every year or election. romney does what he has to keep up and give himself a chance which is mostly lying or changing postion, and obama is full of false promises and says what he has to for people to give him his 2nd term which was almost given 4 years ago anyway. if obama did everything he said and actually tried to bring change but failed miserably id be more willing to vote for him.

Two words: Ross Perot

People actually had heard of him. No one even knows Gary Johnson is running, much less his position on anything or even who he is. Its going to take a big sweeping movement to get a third party going.

exactly the debates are only the main 2, the republicans have been trying their best to squash johnson because they dont want him steal votes like nader did to gore. here in michigan they got him off the ballot completely.

[IceMorbid]

It's a pretty screwed up system and both sides talk out of their rear end. I'm not an independent, I actually lean one way vs. the other - but if more people would just be OPEN and HONEST about most issues they would realize that they LEAN BOTH WAYS from time to time depending on the issue at hand.

I'm so tired of people complaining about polarized politics, only to act the EXACT SAME WAY themselves. Almost 100% of all politicians prey on the ignorance of the general public ~ not because we're all dumb (some of us are, but not all - lol) but because we don't have time/energy/money to really find the truth anyway.

I'll give you a quick example of how most of us are ignorant... One of the major issues is the National Deficit, right? And Obama takes a hit because he's screwed it so badly, right? That's actually wrong. (PLEASE NOTE: This isn't me picking a side ~ I was curious and took to time to find the real info. Feel free to check my facts - tip, make sure it's a .gov website and not just a blog)

The national deficit (not the debt, that's different - the deficit tracks overall spending vs. revenue so the "direction" the country is going for lack of a better term - how much we are making or losing).

Obama inherited a deficit of 1.41 Trillion dollars
FY 2010 it reduced to 1.29
FY 2011 it stayed at 1.29
FY 2012 it reduced to 1.09
(Notice I didn't say "He reduced it..." no credit/blame, just the facts.)

So while all the talk about "The largest debt ever" and "Obama care is ruining the deficit." The deficit has actually decreased from 1.41 to 1.09 (approx. 22%) over the past 4 years.

So we're actually moving in a positive direction (while we're still bleeding money, we're bleeding less and less each year.) Does this large of a deficit still create RECORD BREAKING debt? Absolutely. But it's basically like someone else buying an apache helicopter on your credit card and handing it to you... once those monthly bills start coming in wouldn't you have "RECORD BREAKING" debt too? The best you can hope to do is pay it down so eventually you can get out from under it. And paying it down is the deficit reduction.

Does this make me an Obama supporter on economic policy? Not at all - I think both parties simply cater to the wealthy and suck the rest of us dry - and both parties lie about it. But it does debunk the spoon fed crap that I'm being fed about Obama screwing up the debt and deficit.

I'm just tired of hearing people throwing their spoon-fed crap at one another and thinking of themselves as "great-than-thou" because they can regurgitate crap, literally... Both sides - those people don't give a damn about us - as long as we bicker amongst ourselves, they win. They get richer and more powerful as we fight to decide between Choice A "Make us richer through social programs and more government jobs" or Choice B "Make us rich through tax breaks and bailouts to the wealthy and national security scare tactics."

I'm not saying don't vote. I'm not saying not to swing one way or another. I'm just saying, for the love of Football STOP BELIEVING THE HYPE and creating barriers between the rest of us who are in the same predicament as you are for the most part (i.e. Not Rich and Powerful and getting ABSOLUTELY RAPED by this system regardless of who is in charge).

Maybe this should go in the "how much would you need to get paid to eat someones crap" thread. ROFL!

[LetsGoPeay]

I propose that all political election debates must follow this format from this point forward:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSbxBQhzk3M[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksXRFRCUatc[/youtube]

[beercop]

It's a pretty screwed up system and both sides talk out of their rear end. I'm not an independent, I actually lean one way vs. the other - but if more people would just be OPEN and HONEST about most issues they would realize that they LEAN BOTH WAYS from time to time depending on the issue at hand.

I'm so tired of people complaining about polarized politics, only to act the EXACT SAME WAY themselves. Almost 100% of all politicians prey on the ignorance of the general public ~ not because we're all dumb (some of us are, but not all - lol) but because we don't have time/energy/money to really find the truth anyway.

I'll give you a quick example of how most of us are ignorant... One of the major issues is the National Deficit, right? And Obama takes a hit because he's screwed it so badly, right? That's actually wrong. (PLEASE NOTE: This isn't me picking a side ~ I was curious and took to time to find the real info. Feel free to check my facts - tip, make sure it's a .gov website and not just a blog)

The national deficit (not the debt, that's different - the deficit tracks overall spending vs. revenue so the "direction" the country is going for lack of a better term - how much we are making or losing).

Obama inherited a deficit of 1.41 Trillion dollars
FY 2010 it reduced to 1.29
FY 2011 it stayed at 1.29
FY 2012 it reduced to 1.09
(Notice I didn't say "He reduced it..." no credit/blame, just the facts.)

So while all the talk about "The largest debt ever" and "Obama care is ruining the deficit." The deficit has actually decreased from 1.41 to 1.09 (approx. 22%) over the past 4 years.

So we're actually moving in a positive direction (while we're still bleeding money, we're bleeding less and less each year.) Does this large of a deficit still create RECORD BREAKING debt? Absolutely. But it's basically like someone else buying an apache helicopter on your credit card and handing it to you... once those monthly bills start coming in wouldn't you have "RECORD BREAKING" debt too? The best you can hope to do is pay it down so eventually you can get out from under it. And paying it down is the deficit reduction.

Does this make me an Obama supporter on economic policy? Not at all - I think both parties simply cater to the wealthy and suck the rest of us dry - and both parties lie about it. But it does debunk the spoon fed crap that I'm being fed about Obama screwing up the debt and deficit.

I'm just tired of hearing people throwing their spoon-fed crap at one another and thinking of themselves as "great-than-thou" because they can regurgitate crap, literally... Both sides - those people don't give a damn about us - as long as we bicker amongst ourselves, they win. They get richer and more powerful as we fight to decide between Choice A "Make us richer through social programs and more government jobs" or Choice B "Make us rich through tax breaks and bailouts to the wealthy and national security scare tactics."

I'm not saying don't vote. I'm not saying not to swing one way or another. I'm just saying, for the love of Football STOP BELIEVING THE HYPE and creating barriers between the rest of us who are in the same predicament as you are for the most part (i.e. Not Rich and Powerful and getting ABSOLUTELY RAPED by this system regardless of who is in charge).

Maybe this should go in the "how much would you need to get paid to eat someones crap" thread. ROFL!

From my understaning that spent a year. So it is around 5 trillion, you have to compound the numbers. It took us over 200 year to get to 1.41 trillion. He has gone 4x that in 4 years. I will say i did not read the rest of the book you wrote.

[footballkelly31]

Beercop
Deficit is negative net income obtained by Revenue - Expenses
Debt is total money owed ie. Overall Liability.

What Ice was saying is that the country was operating in the red 1.41 trillion for the fiscal year that Obama took over. Now they are operating in the red 1.09 trillion.

You can reduce the deficit and still increase the debt just means the national debt is increasing at a slower rate.

[WooPigSooie316]

Beercop
Deficit is negative net income obtained by Revenue - Expenses
Debt is total money owed ie. Overall Liability.

What Ice was saying is that the country was operating in the red 1.41 trillion for the fiscal year that Obama took over. Now they are operating in the red 1.09 trillion.

You can reduce the deficit and still increase the debt just means the national debt is increasing at a slower rate.

+1

[Crowes]

It's a pretty screwed up system and both sides talk out of their rear end. I'm not an independent, I actually lean one way vs. the other - but if more people would just be OPEN and HONEST about most issues they would realize that they LEAN BOTH WAYS from time to time depending on the issue at hand.

I'm so tired of people complaining about polarized politics, only to act the EXACT SAME WAY themselves. Almost 100% of all politicians prey on the ignorance of the general public ~ not because we're all dumb (some of us are, but not all - lol) but because we don't have time/energy/money to really find the truth anyway.

I'll give you a quick example of how most of us are ignorant... One of the major issues is the National Deficit, right? And Obama takes a hit because he's screwed it so badly, right? That's actually wrong. (PLEASE NOTE: This isn't me picking a side ~ I was curious and took to time to find the real info. Feel free to check my facts - tip, make sure it's a .gov website and not just a blog)

The national deficit (not the debt, that's different - the deficit tracks overall spending vs. revenue so the "direction" the country is going for lack of a better term - how much we are making or losing).

Obama inherited a deficit of 1.41 Trillion dollars
FY 2010 it reduced to 1.29
FY 2011 it stayed at 1.29
FY 2012 it reduced to 1.09
(Notice I didn't say "He reduced it..." no credit/blame, just the facts.)

So while all the talk about "The largest debt ever" and "Obama care is ruining the deficit." The deficit has actually decreased from 1.41 to 1.09 (approx. 22%) over the past 4 years.

So we're actually moving in a positive direction (while we're still bleeding money, we're bleeding less and less each year.) Does this large of a deficit still create RECORD BREAKING debt? Absolutely. But it's basically like someone else buying an apache helicopter on your credit card and handing it to you... once those monthly bills start coming in wouldn't you have "RECORD BREAKING" debt too? The best you can hope to do is pay it down so eventually you can get out from under it. And paying it down is the deficit reduction.

Does this make me an Obama supporter on economic policy? Not at all - I think both parties simply cater to the wealthy and suck the rest of us dry - and both parties lie about it. But it does debunk the spoon fed crap that I'm being fed about Obama screwing up the debt and deficit.

I'm just tired of hearing people throwing their spoon-fed crap at one another and thinking of themselves as "great-than-thou" because they can regurgitate crap, literally... Both sides - those people don't give a damn about us - as long as we bicker amongst ourselves, they win. They get richer and more powerful as we fight to decide between Choice A "Make us richer through social programs and more government jobs" or Choice B "Make us rich through tax breaks and bailouts to the wealthy and national security scare tactics."

I'm not saying don't vote. I'm not saying not to swing one way or another. I'm just saying, for the love of Football STOP BELIEVING THE HYPE and creating barriers between the rest of us who are in the same predicament as you are for the most part (i.e. Not Rich and Powerful and getting ABSOLUTELY RAPED by this system regardless of who is in charge).

Maybe this should go in the "how much would you need to get paid to eat someones crap" thread. ROFL!

From my understaning that spent a year. So it is around 5 trillion, you have to compound the numbers. It took us over 200 year to get to 1.41 trillion. He has gone 4x that in 4 years. I will say i did not read the rest of the book you wrote.

Ice this is no place to common sense and logic...

And beercop wow the dollar has inflated 1270% so saying it took 200 years to reach this point as a argument is laughable .....

Reagan is the only president out of the past five to have “accepted more debt than all previous U.S. presidents combined.” In real terms, he doubled the total debt. In nominal terms, he almost tripled it

Before that, FDR raised the total debt in real terms almost sixfold and in nominal terms eightfold. Lincoln raised it in real terms 20-fold and in nominal terms 30-fold.

[dakshdar]

The people that complain that Obama is increasing the debt would complain even more if he simply cut out all the spending that is increasing the debt and sent the country into a complete collapse.

They just stand there waiving a double-edged sword at everything.

"Reduce the Debt!" "Stimulate the Economy!" "Nevermind that you can't do both at the same time!"

It is almost as good as the people during the push for Obamacare that protested by carrying signs that read "I don't want the Government controlling my Medicare!".

Morons one and all.

[WooPigSooie316]

It is almost as good as the people during the push for Obamacare that protested by carrying signs that read "I don't want the Government controlling my Medicare!".
.

[beercop]

So… what did everyone think about last nights debate?

[Cnasty]

So… what did everyone think about last nights debate?

Ive been impressed by Mittens so far but last night he just looked overwhelmed and really lacking in his foreign policy knowledge and flubbering a lot more than he did the last 2. At one point I thought he was going to hurl mid Obama sentence.

Obama came out with a gameplan to beat the crap out of him by any means necessary and it worked.

[SIRLOIN]

it was smart move by old mr flip flop to say he now agrees with Obama on every thing, lol i see his front group is spending 18 million to bomb the air wares with mitt's lies. he is a lying ass snake oil salesman who's only real plan is to bust the unions and line his pockets with money. he claims he wants to create 12 million jobs ,but the truth is he created more job's in china than here in the usa. playing people in china .18 cents a hour??? wtf is that???

[UclaMac]

soooo basiclly Sirloin your voting for Romney right?

[Shiftdnb]

he claims he wants to create 12 million jobs

What most people won't take the time to look at is that no matter who is president, they are already predicting an increase of 12 million jobs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ele ... lion-jobs/

Romney once again claimed that his economic plan would produce 12 million jobs. This sounds like a pretty bold statement, especially considering that only two presidents — Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton — created more than 12 million jobs. Romney, in fact, says he can reach this same goal, in just four years, though the policy paper issued by his campaign contains few details. It is mostly a collection of policy assertions, such as reducing debt, overhauling the tax code, fostering free trade and so forth.
But, in fact, the number is even less impressive than it sounds. This pledge amounts to an average of 250,000 jobs a month, a far cry from the 500,000 jobs a month that Romney once claimed would be created in a “normal recovery.” In recent months, the economy has averaged about 150,000 jobs a month.
The Congressional Budget Office is required to consider the effects of the so-called “fiscal cliff” if a year-end budget deal is not reached, which many experts believe would push the country into a recession. But even with that caveat, the nonpartisan agency assumes 9.06 million jobs will be created between 2013 and 2017. (This is a revision downward; CBO had estimated 11 million in January.)
But Moody’s Analytics, in an August forecast, predicts 12 million jobs will be created by 2016, no matter who is president. And Macroeconomic Advisors in April also predicted a gain of 12.3 million jobs. In other words, this is a fairly safe bet by Romney, even if he has a somewhat fuzzy plan for action. We have often noted that presidents are often at the mercy — or are the beneficiary — of broad economic trends, and Romney’s pledge appears to be an effort to take advantage of that.
Moreover, the Fact Checker column this week gave Romney Four Pinocchios for an television ad that incorrectly jumbles together a bunch of studies to achieve that 12 million figure.

[beercop]

I know I am not voting Obama. He had 4 years and has acomplished nothing but raming in a shitty healthcare plan down everyones throat. I may look at third party candidates but there is only one problem with voting that way, it is essentially a vote for Obama in my eyes. Oh well, i have a couple weeks to figure it out.