NDL Forum

Ann Arbor is a perfect example, that franchise Market Size and Fan Loyalty was reset when Ted left. But because that team was already stacked and he won right away (2 rings) his Market Size and fan loyalty is already better than most of the league.

SmittyRocks7 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:07 pm Ann Arbor is a perfect example, that franchise Market Size and Fan Loyalty was reset when Ted left. But because that team was already stacked and he won right away (2 rings) his Market Size and fan loyalty is already better than most of the league.

He stayed as Washington for awhile then actually re-located his team to Ann Arbor a couple seasons after I believe so that's when those things would have been reset. I don't believe he had those things changed immediately upon taking over.

TheGobOne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:10 pm

SmittyRocks7 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:07 pm Ann Arbor is a perfect example, that franchise Market Size and Fan Loyalty was reset when Ted left. But because that team was already stacked and he won right away (2 rings) his Market Size and fan loyalty is already better than most of the league.

He stayed as Washington for awhile then actually re-located his team to Ann Arbor a couple seasons after I believe so that's when those things would have been reset. I don't believe he had those things changed immediately upon taking over.

Cool... lets say it was two seasons later, that franchise was elite many seasons post Thundercrabs. His market size increased super fast and I just believe its because of how good the team was and the monster budget he had. I've been drawn to this Market Size thing ever since I started.... not sure why, I'm just a loser like that. So I look at everyone's market size all the time, just trying to figure out what the hell it means. I haven't been able to make any correlation other than winning and budget sizes. But I guess you can't get a monster budget without winning.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:47 pm Market size will keep AJ from competing for a long time. He won't get the revenue to better help his team.

look, i am in no way insinuating that is the only factor holding me back at all....i make dumb moves like everyone

but i cant do much about it right now

like i have said before i like randomness to an extent. i dont thing every #1 overall pick should be a guaranteed stud. but things like needing to win to make money is absurd

i cant spend 10 hours a week on the game to research raising and lowering ticket prices etc etc etc. market sizes should be relatively standard IMO

Ry wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:58 pm

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:56 pm I'm pretty sure it was the ChicagoLOLCats. But you're also talking 60 years ago. And if that was the case then AJ should be much higher because he won a bunch back then also

AJs port orange is not the same port orange that he used to have.

no doubt about it, but how do you ever get back?

i also take responsibility for leaving the league for a few seasons.

again, my issue is, why should i have t o work 10 times as hard, and get lucky, when others simply can make twice as much money going .500 because their market size is gigantic

ajalves wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:45 pm

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:47 pm Market size will keep AJ from competing for a long time. He won't get the revenue to better help his team.

look, i am in no way insinuating that is the only factor holding me back at all....i make dumb moves like everyone

but i cant do much about it right now

like i have said before i like randomness to an extent. i dont thing every #1 overall pick should be a guaranteed stud. but things like needing to win to make money is absurd

i cant spend 10 hours a week on the game to research raising and lowering ticket prices etc etc etc. market sizes should be relatively standard IMO

Market Size adjustments wouldn't fix it for you. You need to adjust your ticket prices 100%. Your attendance history is rough over the last 5 years. Cut your ticket price in half and go from there.

TheGobOne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:52 pm

ajalves wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:45 pm

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:47 pm Market size will keep AJ from competing for a long time. He won't get the revenue to better help his team.

look, i am in no way insinuating that is the only factor holding me back at all....i make dumb moves like everyone

but i cant do much about it right now

like i have said before i like randomness to an extent. i dont thing every #1 overall pick should be a guaranteed stud. but things like needing to win to make money is absurd

i cant spend 10 hours a week on the game to research raising and lowering ticket prices etc etc etc. market sizes should be relatively standard IMO

Market Size adjustments wouldn't fix it for you. You need to adjust your ticket prices 100%. Your attendance history is rough over the last 5 years. Cut your ticket price in half and go from there.

i am in no way saying you're wrong, but 6 of one half dozen of another really to some extent

the arbitrary budget slashing is the issue. i used to have a 150 mill payroll with money to spare. then you lose and poof its like 100 mill total budget lol...thats a death sentence

plus its 2087 in game, 27$ average ticket price is too high?

ajalves wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:58 pm

TheGobOne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:52 pm

ajalves wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:45 pm

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:47 pm Market size will keep AJ from competing for a long time. He won't get the revenue to better help his team.

look, i am in no way insinuating that is the only factor holding me back at all....i make dumb moves like everyone

but i cant do much about it right now

like i have said before i like randomness to an extent. i dont thing every #1 overall pick should be a guaranteed stud. but things like needing to win to make money is absurd

i cant spend 10 hours a week on the game to research raising and lowering ticket prices etc etc etc. market sizes should be relatively standard IMO

Market Size adjustments wouldn't fix it for you. You need to adjust your ticket prices 100%. Your attendance history is rough over the last 5 years. Cut your ticket price in half and go from there.

i am in no way saying you're wrong, but 6 of one half dozen of another really to some extent

the arbitrary budget slashing is the issue. i used to have a 150 mill payroll with money to spare. then you lose and poof its like 100 mill total budget lol...thats a death sentence

The budget is solely what you earned the year before. Just look at your attendance. That's the issue. You are predicted to get 15k people a game in your 40k stadium. Go down to $15 and see how many fans you start getting. You need to try to find the sweet spot. If you don't want to there's a setting to allow your Asst GM to set them for you (if you have one). AI usually picks a pretty good price.

The budget stuff is purely math, not arbitrary at all

Let the computer make the ticket prices. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel

A lot of owners just aren't factoring in Rev. Sharing, if you're not paying attention it'll crush you. Your team is finally doing great and now you have no money to build on. I knew I was going to be $100 million in the red but it was worth it for me.

And anyone that isn't going to log on every single day to track your attendance and adjust your ticket prices should just let the AI do it for you, its way too important.

I have the second lowest budget in the league at 94 mil. I'm guessing PO is the team below me. I depleted a lot of my fan interest by trading away and releasing some players that were regulars. And my market size dropped to Below Average last season, so I have a hole to dig out of. I had already dropped my ticket prices by 22% from last year before this conversation, so I went in to see what changes it may bring. These are all projections, but after dropping the prices, season tickets projected to go up 20%, attendance up 38%, and revenue per game up 5%. I think that's a decent start and will adjust as the season goes on. Back in my first stint in the league I would look at attendance and prices almost every sim and make slight adjustments based upon what I was seeing. Or course, randomness, if you don't have a dome or retractable roof, your attendance will fluctuate due to weather.

Just my thoughts.

EDIT: When I took over this franchise, I inherited the market size and fan interest. It did not get reset.

There are no rainouts in our league so dome type shouldn't affect attendance at all unless I'm missing something.

I am a little late here but I can clear up a few things...

1. Every single owners franchise starts at the same place as far as market/interest/loyalty. I reset new owners even if they did not move so that everyone will always start at the same spot with those. I did not do a good job of relaying this to Ryan but we have spoken about it now.

2. Market size is most certainly tied to consistent winning. It increases slowly but the more you win consistently and for sustained periods that is how you increase it. Maybe the OOTP forums debate it but I watched 30 teams pretty religiously as commish for 40 seasons or whatever and if you win consistently your market sizes goes up.

3. Not a knock on AJ as he is not the only one but the only way for your budget to get that low is not putting effort in to managing ticket prices. Tracking your season ticket prices and adjusting in season is critical to your revenue and therefore your budget. I track mine religiously but if you do not want to do that then you should do what Nick said and let the AI manage tickets and I guarantee your revenue increases. If you just set it to $25 no matter if you are good or bad you are costing yourself tens of millions.

4. Some of the examples George used don't work because pretty much every team he named had moved since the years he named so those teams reset.

5. The only reason SF is at big is because of the famous Hank meltdown for some of the long time guys to remember. He had the most elite org because he had all of Reign's attributes and when I took over I slowly dropped them year by year to put them to where they should have been when he took over. I stopped at big or above average (can't remember) since it was not his fault.

TheGobOne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:03 pm There are no rainouts in our league so dome type shouldn't affect attendance at all unless I'm missing something.

I'm not talking about rainouts, I'm talking about when your game is played in the rain. Attendance goes down significantly if there was rain when the game is played.

SmittyRocks7 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:36 pm

TheGobOne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:10 pm

SmittyRocks7 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:07 pm Ann Arbor is a perfect example, that franchise Market Size and Fan Loyalty was reset when Ted left. But because that team was already stacked and he won right away (2 rings) his Market Size and fan loyalty is already better than most of the league.

He stayed as Washington for awhile then actually re-located his team to Ann Arbor a couple seasons after I believe so that's when those things would have been reset. I don't believe he had those things changed immediately upon taking over.

Cool... lets say it was two seasons later, that franchise was elite many seasons post Thundercrabs. His market size increased super fast and I just believe its because of how good the team was and the monster budget he had. I've been drawn to this Market Size thing ever since I started.... not sure why, I'm just a loser like that. So I look at everyone's market size all the time, just trying to figure out what the hell it means. I haven't been able to make any correlation other than winning and budget sizes. But I guess you can't get a monster budget without winning.

It looks like he moved after 2079- then went:
77-85
78-84
79-83
96-66

I don't have access to the game right now, so thats all I can see on the league history reports, but I don't think that is elite many seasons post thundercrabs

wdoupis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:06 am
2. Market size is most certainly tied to consistent winning. It increases slowly but the more you win consistently and for sustained periods that is how you increase it. Maybe the OOTP forums debate it but I watched 30 teams pretty religiously as commish for 40 seasons or whatever and if you win consistently your market sizes goes up.

Again we don't have any actual data to support this though. It may certainly be tied to winning and i'm sure it is, but I think it is much less of an impact than people think.

If you think outside of our game and how the markets work in real life, which is what OOTP is trying to simulate- key point here. It doesn't make any sense that winning would have a big impact on market size. That's just not how it works in real life, again which OOTP is trying to simulate.

I think that we do know for a fact that Fan Interest and Fan Loyalty are much more tied to winning than Market Size- there's no argument there.

Which is why if we were to set everyone's to the same, we would have a better system that is we actually have an understanding of which is that Fan Loyalty and Fan Interest would have a closer impact than to what we think is fair- which is that people should be award for winning and not something that is 95% arbitrary like Market Size.