MMA / UFC - Official Thread

[ReignOnU]

I know it sounds like a silly question, but I think it's legit...why do people care if he does cocaine or not?

I know the default answer will probably be that it's an illegal drug, but my response would be...and? Still doesn't answer why we should care?

If you just like the talking point and gives you something to blabber about in the off time, that's cool. But lots of guys get way too into something that doesn't really have much to do with what is the only reason we care about Jones, you just wanna watch him fight.

I think you're simplifying it too much. The haters have something to pick at him about and the fans may have a moral dilemma. I like to root for good people to be successful. I don't like to root for crackheads to be successful. Finding out that he has a cocaine problem doesn't fall in line with my moral compass. With that said, it's not a hard and fast rule. I'm willing to give him an opportunity to earn my trust as a fan. (not that it matters to him at all, this is my perspective) But if my perception becomes that he's just an asshat drug abuser, that's not the kind of person that I'd like to root for. If you base it on the point that "it is the only reason we care about Jones," then it's a fair question. However, he's a polarizing figure that has a large fan base that "hate" on him and a large fan base that want him to be the best ever... not just 'watch him fight.'

[shel311]

I like to root for good people to be successful. I don't like to root for crackheads to be successful. Finding out that he has a cocaine problem doesn't fall in line with my moral compass.

Not to get all "preachy", but can you honestly say that you, your wife, your brothers/sisters, your good friends have all of those people closest to you have never done a drug in the past? Or just goint a different route, something that wouldn't fall along with your moral compass? Most people have some kind of issues in their past or present they have to work through. Maybe there's other things and other reasons to not like him, but(and this is maybe where we diverge and disagree...I don't know), I don't think just becauase a guy does cocaine that makes him a bad person.


Maybe we just draw the line at different places, cause I'd agree that a guy like, say, Jason Kidd who has known to have multiple instances of abusing women, I won't really root for him, but to be honest, when I'm watching a game, I don't even think about that.

However, he's a polarizing figure that has a large fan base that "hate" on him and a large fan base that want him to be the best ever... not just 'watch him fight.'

But that's where I wonder if it's getting into the realm for lots where it's just a talking point, just something to talk about in between fights.

[ReignOnU]

]Not to get all "preachy", but can you honestly say that you, your wife, your brothers/sisters, your good friends have all of those people closest to you have never done a drug in the past? Or just goint a different route, something that wouldn't fall along with your moral compass? Most people have some kind of issues in their past or present they have to work through. Maybe there's other things and other reasons to not like him, but(and this is maybe where we diverge and disagree...I don't know), I don't think just becauase a guy does cocaine that makes him a bad person.

I have never done an illegal drug, so yes, I can.

Beyond that, I specifically pointed out that I would give the opportunity to earn back my trust. (good job conveniently overlooking that)

Maybe we just draw the line at different places, cause I'd agree that a guy like, say, Jason Kidd who has known to have multiple instances of abusing women, I won't really root for him, but to be honest, when I'm watching a game, I don't even think about that.

I'm sure a lot of people draw the line at different places, which is what brings up a conversation like this. In my eyes, choosing to consistently do cocaine is a stupid decision that doesn't fall inline with my values. We could go on for days about why people have the values that they do.

You start from a place of "we only enjoy watching him fight." With your Jason Kidd scenario, that's basically where he was as a player for him. I had no opinion on him one way or the other. When everything went down, I basically took the approach that he's an idiot for doing it, but it didn't change how I watched his games. Another thing that could be at play there is that is a team sport, where he blends in to the mix and wasn't elite... while Jones is in an individual sport where he is regarding as arguably the best in the world. The right parallel to make is probably Tiger Woods.

]But that's where I wonder if it's getting into the realm for lots where it's just a talking point, just something to talk about in between fights.

It absolutely is for those people. That's what we do on message boards and in sports discussions. Just look at the Jameis Winston haters (myself included) for an example of that.

[trendon]

My bar just signed on to show this dreck. It's going to be a fucking nightmare.

[shel311]

I have never done an illegal drug, so yes, I can.

Neither have I, I just don't look down upon those that do, unless it's obvious that the drug is consuming them and ruining their lives...again just differences in where we draw the line.

The right parallel to make is probably Tiger Woods.

If your moral compass draws the line at Tiger Woods for cheating, and you strive to be consistent with your moral compass, I would highly suggest just not taking a rooting interest in any sports teams

(good job conveniently overlooking that)

We were soooooooo close, so so close.

[jsence2]

Shel, you don't get the problem.

The UFC has a "code of conduct" that they have enforced often to kill contracts, suspend fighters for a year, etc whenever a drug violation (usually marijuana) has been committed. They don't give those guys second chances or let them go to rehab, or even stand behind them. They use the "code of conduct" to punish a guy.

This is akin to the NFL giving a bunch of random guys a year suspension for their first weed offense, and then telling Tom Brady "hey, we know you did cocaine, we knew before you played in the Super Bowl, but go to rehab for a night, we'll support you and you won't miss any games".

[ReignOnU]

I don't think we're as far apart as you want to make it seem. You stop at consuming / ruining their lives... while I'm probably closer to just habitual use. Again, the reasons for the difference can vary and I respect that the right answer is dependent on the personal views. My views are shaped by having grown up in a high drug usage area and have lost 3 people to overdoses. That could certainly lead me to being more sensitive to it than someone that hasn't.

Using Tiger as a similar example... I've never cheated, never been cheated on and only rarely have a I seen significant impacts from it. Therefore, I'm likely to be more insensitive about it than some others. Not saying it's right/wrong... it's just perspective.

[ReignOnU]

Shel, you don't get the problem.

The UFC has a "code of conduct" that they have enforced often to kill contracts, suspend fighters for a year, etc whenever a drug violation (usually marijuana) has been committed. They don't give those guys second chances or let them go to rehab, or even stand behind them. They use the "code of conduct" to punish a guy.

This is akin to the NFL giving a bunch of random guys a year suspension for their first weed offense, and then telling Tom Brady "hey, we know you did cocaine, we knew before you played in the Super Bowl, but go to rehab for a night, we'll support you and you won't miss any games".

I get what you're saying... but it's not apples to apples. The 3 common people brought up as counter arguments to Jones all failed in-competition testing and that was used as grounds for the firing. Jones failed an out-of-competition test, that allegedly was not supposed to even be administered.

If you base it solely on knowing that Jones does cocaine now, I would immediately counter with the fact that everyone knew 2 of those guys were using drugs prior to testing positive, so that doesn't hold water either.

[shel311]

Shel, you don't get the problem.

The UFC has a "code of conduct" that they have enforced often to kill contracts, suspend fighters for a year, etc whenever a drug violation (usually marijuana) has been committed. They don't give those guys second chances or let them go to rehab, or even stand behind them. They use the "code of conduct" to punish a guy.

This is akin to the NFL giving a bunch of random guys a year suspension for their first weed offense, and then telling Tom Brady "hey, we know you did cocaine, we knew before you played in the Super Bowl, but go to rehab for a night, we'll support you and you won't miss any games".

Eh, I get what you're saying, but 90% of the talk is anti-Jones, and if what you're saying was actually so, it would be 90% anti-MMA/Dana White, right?

[shel311]

I don't think we're as far apart as you want to make it seem. You stop at consuming / ruining their lives... while I'm probably closer to just habitual use. Again, the reasons for the difference can vary and I respect that the right answer is dependent on the personal views. My views are shaped by having grown up in a high drug usage area and have lost 3 people to overdoses. That could certainly lead me to being more sensitive to it than someone that hasn't.

Using Tiger as a similar example... I've never cheated, never been cheated on and only rarely have a I seen significant impacts from it. Therefore, I'm likely to be more insensitive about it than some others. Not saying it's right/wrong... it's just perspective.

Yea, I definitely think you're spot on.

I think the difference may lie in, we're probably close or similar in how we'd treat friends/family, but you may be a bit more harsh on the athlete, while I would fall on more of the lenient side. That's my guess.

[jsence2]

Shel, you don't get the problem.

The UFC has a "code of conduct" that they have enforced often to kill contracts, suspend fighters for a year, etc whenever a drug violation (usually marijuana) has been committed. They don't give those guys second chances or let them go to rehab, or even stand behind them. They use the "code of conduct" to punish a guy.

This is akin to the NFL giving a bunch of random guys a year suspension for their first weed offense, and then telling Tom Brady "hey, we know you did cocaine, we knew before you played in the Super Bowl, but go to rehab for a night, we'll support you and you won't miss any games".

Eh, I get what you're saying, but 90% of the talk is anti-Jones, and if what you're saying was actually so, it would be 90% anti-MMA/Dana White, right?

I said him doing rehab for one night was a joke. I'm not sure how that wouldn't be anti-everyone involved.

[Whittness10]

Not a fan of Herrig. she/he annoys me.

I was getting ready to say the same thing, almost verbatim.

Now VanZant, she is a fun fighter to watch. At least her UFC Debut was.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... p=features

[nick]

The Spartan fights in Dallas

[Seeitsaveit13]

Just saw Faber on an episode of shark tank. Does he not fight anymore? looked smaller

[Whittness10]

Just saw Faber on an episode of shark tank. Does he not fight anymore? looked smaller

He was on a card not too long ago. I remember posting how I thought it was funny that he was a prelim fight.

[fsupenguin]

Holy crap, what a card tonight!

[GeorgesGoons]

Just watched the main card, still have the prelims to watch.

Anthony Johnson is VIOLENT! It'll be interesting to see how Jones does against that kind of power. Off the top of my head, he hasn't faced anyone nearly as powerful as Rumble. You could say Vitor or Henderson, both are getting up in age and are losing some of that sting they once possessed. Henderson has his H-Bomb and that is it, Vitor is a more rounded striker but after watching Rumble fight at HW and LHW in Strikeforce and UFC there isn't a soul in the UFC that possesses his kind of power, utilizing both hands and legs. Jones should be scared. I am torn who I should root for though, as I have always been a fan of Rumble (even at 170).

I wish people would quit talking about Phil Davis as a top 10 guy. If he is unable to wrestle his opponent he looks no better than you or I in the cage. He is probably one of the most athletic guys in the UFC but that can only get him wins against guys ranked 7 and above.

Thought Dan Henderson should have been given a little more time to recover. Don't think he was out of it.

Sam Sacilia is a fun fighter to watch. I can't remember a boring fight he has been in.

I also watched the early prelims. I really thought Chris Beal would be a world beater at 125. He still might be. The weight cut was obviously hard on him as he gassed quickly. If he can get that science down he will be knocking a lot of guys out down there.

Viktor Pesta can take a punch. He was rocked by some vicious punches by the Russian but still remained in the fight that first round. After the russian wore himself out, it was elementary. Would have liked to see him go for the kill though.

[ReignOnU]

I think Vitor is on (or very close) to the same level as Johnson. Like you, I'm a big fan of Rumble. With that said, I don't see Johnson beating Jones. Jones will keep range with the front push kick, which helps to mitigate Rumble's kicking game, due to the distance issue. I also think that Jones can get Rumble on the ground and do some serious damage. Rumble isn't used to fighting from that position. I've rarely seen Jones take a huge punch. It's not that he can't, it's the he does a tremendous job of avoiding them.

As for Phil Davis... I really want him to succeed. But the truth is, he hasn't done what is necessary with his striking game to fight on that level. Physically, he's imposing. I'm not so sure that athletic is the right word. When I see him fight, the speed/power that I would relate to athletic don't come through. I think Saturday night was a turning point for me with Davis. I like Bader as well and both guys seem to be on the edge of being a legitimate title threat in the division. Bader shut Davis down. The difference between the 2 is that Bader has clearly improved his striking since first coming onto the scene from TUF. He's evolved. I found one of his quotes from the lead up to the fight to be pretty accurate. It was in reference to losing to Davis in collegiate wrestling and was basically "my MMA game has evolved while Davis is still a great college wrestler." It's the truth.

If Jones clearly takes out Rumble, which I expect, he will have cleaned out all of the top competition in the division. There's a tier of fighters that could be legit champions, but Jones is just so far ahead of the game. Below that tier, there are a lot of question marks.

If you get a chance, check out the post-fight interview with Makwan Amirkhani. He's not McGregor, but it's damn funny. Anytime you can make Mousasi crack a smile, you know you've succeeded.

I was looking through the future fight cards last week... check out the Pettis-Dos Anjos card for UFC 185. The potential storylines on this card is incredible...

Pettis v. RDA - I'm a huge Pettis fan and RDA was talking some serious trash.

Esparza v. JJ - Yeah, not trying to spell that... but the newly crowned TUF champ gets an undefeated fighter for her first defense.

Overeem v. Nelson - Not really top of the division guys anymore... but should be a fun fight with a KO finish.

Hendricks v. Matt Brown - Should be a fast paced fight that puts 1 of them back on deck to avenge their loss to Lawler.

Stout v. Pearson - Again... these 2 will stand a throw, no question.

Cruickshank - The guys is never going to be considered an elite fighter and he's a bit of a goof... but his style is very fun to watch.

Sergio Pettis - Sky high potential and hopefully his last loss got him in the right mindset.

Henry Cejudo - 7-0 and 2008 Olympic Gold Medalist (Wrestling). He's starting to take his steps up in competition now.

Joseph Duffy - He signed about 2 weeks ago. He's 26yrs old, 12-1 record. What's so special about him? Not only has he beat Norman Parke, who is a legit prospect for the UFC, he also has 1 of the 2 blemishes on Conor McGregor's record. Duffy is a well rounded striker. He's not as flamboyant as McGregor, but incredible fundamental and solid.


That's a helluva lineup.

[GeorgesGoons]

I agree with most of what you said. Cejudo is going to be a champ one day. His last fight he looked as if he was a Muay Tai practitioner for 10 years, didn't use his wrestling once.

The win over Connor was at 155 too. I watched the fight on bloodyelbow.com.

I hope Nelson puts Overeem into retirement, never liked his smug looking ass

Everyone made a big deal about the Maulers reach when he fought Jones. And he was able to land whenever he wanted it seemed. Rumbles reach is only 1 inch shorter. Rumble has a legitimate shot at beating him, one punch or left high kick is all it will take. Everyone sleeps on Rumbles wrestling game, he is one of the best at keeping fights on the feet, think chuck Liddell in his prime. I would bet on Rumble t pool win if I was a betting man.

If the Spider wins in convincing fashion I could see the UFC trying to leverage a fight with Jones. They both say they are not interested in that fight but if the money is right both would fight their mom.

Can't wait to watch Matt Brown fight. He is the type of guy you make someone watch if they are on the fence on whether they like the sport or not.

Cruickahank is another guy who is fun to watch.

[GeorgesGoons]

Just looked at Rumbles losses:

Vitor at 185 where he came in 11 pounds iver
Kevin Burns at 170
Rich Clementi at 170
Josh Koshcheck at 170

Just think if he would have stuck to his correct weight the whole time. He has even fought at HW.