NDL Forum

Dole, your sister just wants you to attend church. If you are looking to please her, then attend a church you are comfortable with. She should just be happy with your choice to go to service each week/month. But, if you only want to attend with them and you arent comfortable with that church, then dont go.

Essay time....Trendon, there are a few things to consider:

1) Being a Christian is not about going to church; it's not about doing good deeds; it's not about tithing; it's not about being baptized. Being a Christian is (as you said) believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, sent as a sacrifice for our sins, and as John 3:16 says, "whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but will have everlasting life." Now, we perceive "believing" as just saying Ok, I believe it in my head. But it's more than that--you must believe in Him in your HEART. And to believe in Him is to follow his teachings--to love others, to forgive those who hurt you, to not hold grudges, to be a friend to those in need, to sacrifice yourself to help others. But most of all, it is to know that you are human, that you make mistakes, but to ADMIT them to the Lord, to ask His forgiveness, and to ask for His HELP to prevent them in the future.

2) As for going to church, tithing, etc...Jesus taught that the church is designed to teach. Reading the Bible, as Pengy said, is a major step. But once that is done, there are many questions that we all have about it--and that is where the teachings of the church come in. I've learned many things in service that I didn't get from reading; there are many things that I didn't put together. Our church runs a lot of sermon series' designed to tie the teachings of the Bible to TODAY'S world. For example, in the past few months, my church has taught about:

***** "Seeing God"--In my universe, in my body, in my world, in my pain. Made me realize a lot of small things that God impacts that I never even thought about.

***** "Just Say Yes"-- the current series, dealing with "saying yes" to God's will when we aren't sure, when we're scared, or (and these are the final two for a reason) when we face opposition to do so, or when we've told him no before.

3) Tithing....one of the biggest misconceptions is that tithing is giving "10% of your money to God". That's not what tithing is. 10% is a number made by man. What God wants us to give is a portion (a GOOD portion, not a tiny bit) of OUR BEST to God. For some, that is money, and that's fine. For others, it might be things like their time (a big one for me), their talents, their possessions. Some people tithe by serving at the soup kitchen; some tithe by volunteering at church. Some people tithe by going on missions and giving up EVERYTHING for a few months. It's supposed to be something between you and the Lord. Baptism is ceremonial and a symbol; it's not a requirement to make it to Heaven. It's a celebration of your commitment to the Lord, to washing away the sins of your life.

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But if you REALLY want to get down to it, a series we did earlier this year that changed my life, will say it all.

I am NOT A FAN of Jesus Christ.

A big part of the reason that many people see Christians as "hypocrites" or "two faced" is that many Christians are FANS of Jesus. I was one for a long time. But it's easy to be a fan--you show up at church, you say how much you love Him, and that's about all it takes. But our church has pushed us to say we are NOT A FAN of Jesus; instead, we are to be FOLLOWERS of Jesus, we are to live our lives in His word, we are to sacrifice ourselves to do His will. Being a follower means you change your LIFE for him, not just a few little things. That requires a WHOLE lot more than just being a fan.

I would ask you to go to the site below, and just look around, and watch the intro vidoe at the top....read some of the testimonies, see some of the people whose lives have changed drastically. I understand your anger and your hesitation towards religion due to the people you've witnessed. This might make you see there are many who are turning away from that kind of Christianity.

http://www.notafan.com/

Well said and only furthers my distaste for religion while coming to a better understanding of spiritual people.

The reason I brought that up is that if Dole is put into that position where it seems to be THIS CHURCH OR OUR RELATIONSHIP, he can always counter with "I do xyz and that makes me as good in my lord's eye as you! Take that! You are the heathen!"

OK, skip that last part.

I don't believe you should go to a church where you don't feel comfortable expressing your doubts.

trendon wrote:Hey, religious people, got a question for you and maybe that will help Dole.

As you know, I think you are all delusional. Sorry. As you can see from my marriage thread, if shit ain't 2+2, I don't want to hear it. Whatever ...

Let's just say you say, like me, fuck your bullshit ceremonies, fuck your tithes, and fuck your communities ... but you believe that jesus is your lord and savior. You believe all that, but you never got baptized, communed, confirmed, married, attended church and what not. You just sat there with your book and your rosary and you said your prayers and acted as if in the community.

Are you no better than the man who follows the steps set by the church?

If the answer is "no" then I believe we have the answer for Dole. Act as if and be proud. If the answer is "yes", well, I don't know what to say and I will step aside.

I look forward to penguin's answer since I feel he understand what I am saying the best considering, minus spirituality, we seem to agree the most on everything else.

Well to start with, there is a massive difference believing that Jesus is your Lord and savior and living it. There is a problem with the question as well, as you base it on comparing people to each other. God does not compare us to each other, there is only one measuring stick and it is God and His holiness. Ceremonies and denominations will be the undoing of so many people as they believe in those things, but not in the Word of God. It gos back to the Bible. Read the new the testament; the book of Acts is simply Paul covering how we are to "act". So many of Paul's writings contains riches beyond anything you can imagine till you take the time to humble your heart and not only read them, but ask God to speak to you through it. The church in this nation has largely forgotten there purpose, and this is why I can fully understand why many believe as you do Trendon. It has become about religion, and not about Jesus and reaching out and telling people about Him. He is grace incarnate. At the end of it all we are accountable for what we know and believe, basing your faith on what a church or another person tells you is not only foolish but dangerous. By far my favorite passage written by Paul is 1 Corinthians 13, the Amplified version reads :

1IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such [a]as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2And if I have prophetic powers (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have [sufficient] faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love (God's love in me) I am nothing (a useless nobody).

3Even if I dole out all that I have [to the poor in providing] food, and if I surrender my body to be burned or [c] in order that I may glory, but have not love (God's love in me), I gain nothing.

4Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

5It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].

6It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

7Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

8Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy ([d]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].

9For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).

10But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.

12For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as [e]in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand [f]fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been [g]fully and clearly known and understood [[h]by God].

13And so faith, hope, love abide [faith--conviction and belief respecting man's relation to God and divine things; hope--joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation; love--true affection for God and man, growing out of God's love for and in us], these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Sorry it was so long, very intrigued to read peoples responses to this.

hammer meet nail.