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Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:44 pm
by UnTouchable8
Hmmm, I do love chicken parmesan...
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:56 pm
by trendon
DRiccio21 wrote:trendon wrote:DRiccio21 wrote:
you have to seperate your hatred for a product and realize how incredible the company has been.
I have and, currently, their contributions to the tech sector have now gone into the red. They are a fucking menace. The only hope we have is that courts continue to strike down their bullshit like they just did for Samsung. HTC is up next. They are a complete and total menace with their litigious ways, throttling of technology to fit their little iCult/iCommune, and their tech-like BMW tax for owning their products.
this has happened for centuries. a new restaurant opens down the street and you have leverage, you crush them and force them to go out of business. they might have been able to make a better chicken parm than you in the long run, but that doesn't matter if you can still sell your chicken parm more than they can.
if their chicken parm is materially better, it'll sell regardless. they'll figure out how to get things to work. if it's not materially better than people will stay at your restaurant because its cooler and more chic and they are comfortable with it.
if you then open up 10 more restaurants off the success of your chicken parm and employ hundreds of more people than you are doing well and its a net positive for the community. if then you can sell the marinara and cheese that you use on your chicken parm seperately and create new revenue streams you are executing even better. if then a couple copy cats come along and build their own chicken parm similar to you than you are eventually going to get into a war of quality. the better executing company will sell the most chicken parms. right now Apple sells the best chicken parms, whether you prefer someone elses or not.
Horrible analogy for one goddamn reason: restaurants don't then try and fucking PATENT chicken parm or, as Apple is trying to do now, try and patent bread. I am not going through this again because you will not be able to get past P&L and I won't argue with their success (obviously). From a tech standpoint, they are bad, bad, bad, bad. Luckily, courts are starting to slap them around but they are like the Terminator and won't stop.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:04 pm
by DRiccio21
okay.
but for you, or anyone, to say they are bad for the country is crazy short sighted.
you realize that we have NEVER seen a company execute at their level ever. they are the biggest company in the world and they are growing 30% yoy... do you realize how absurd that is?
if not for Apple, the thousands of app developers making millions and employing new millionaires wouldn't exist or as many wouldn't exist. if not for Apple, companies like twitter, pinterest, even facebook aren't nearly as successful as they are. thats billions in revenues all because of the piggy back success of apple.
you can say that it would have happened regardless, but i don't play in hypotheticals when it comes to capitalism. they've done it and they've executed. maybe someone could have or has done it better on the technology side but that doesn't matter if they can't execute as well.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:07 pm
by ajalves
speaking of underrated. Chicken parm is an enuerrated meal...
fyi ~ he doesnt seem to say it, but Trednon's issue isnt with Apple. Its with who he percieves to be dumb Americans/consumers.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:07 pm
by trendon
DRiccio21 wrote:
if not for Apple, the thousands of app developers making millions and employing new millionaires wouldn't exist or as many wouldn't exist. if not for Apple, companies like twitter, pinterest, even facebook aren't nearly as successful as they are. thats billions in revenues all because of the piggy back success of apple.
I never said they were bad for the country. I just hate them as a tech company.
As for that point, I don't know. I am unsure if the growth in the independent developer world outweighs the damage they have levied on the tech sector as a whole. There is also the benefit of Apple kickinstarting Google, MS, HTC, etc into getting their products in line with Apple; something that has to be said.
But now? Now that everyone is on board and making better products and Apple's only response is a courtroom? I'm sorry. They are a more powerful Nintendo (to draw a parallel we can all understand). Same ideals, same practices, slightly greater success relative to the industry, and - in my opinion - same endgame.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:14 pm
by LetsGoPeay
ajalves wrote:speaking of underrated. Chicken parm is an enuerrated meal...
Baked buffalo chicken breast and baked potato for me homie.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:23 pm
by jsence2
I guarantee you Apple had something to do with MegaUpload being taken down.
Piracy my ass, they were becoming a competitor of the Apple/iTunes store.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:24 pm
by shel311
jsence2 wrote:I guarantee you Apple had something to do with MegaUpload being taken down.
Piracy my ass, they were becoming a competitor of the Apple/iTunes store.
I'm no MegaUpload expert, but isn't downloading music/movies on that site for free, or any site for that matter, illegal?
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:27 pm
by brwnbear
shel311 wrote:jsence2 wrote:I guarantee you Apple had something to do with MegaUpload being taken down.
Piracy my ass, they were becoming a competitor of the Apple/iTunes store.
I'm no MegaUpload expert, but isn't downloading music/movies on that site for free, or any site for that matter, illegal?
If it is copywrited, then yes.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:29 pm
by jsence2
Seeitsaveit13 wrote:DRiccio21 wrote:trendon wrote:DRiccio21 wrote:
you have to seperate your hatred for a product and realize how incredible the company has been.
I have and, currently, their contributions to the tech sector have now gone into the red. They are a fucking menace. The only hope we have is that courts continue to strike down their bullshit like they just did for Samsung. HTC is up next. They are a complete and total menace with their litigious ways, throttling of technology to fit their little iCult/iCommune, and their tech-like BMW tax for owning their products.
this has happened for centuries. a new restaurant opens down the street and you have leverage, you crush them and force them to go out of business. they might have been able to make a better chicken parm than you in the long run, but that doesn't matter if you can still sell your chicken parm more than they can.
if their chicken parm is materially better, it'll sell regardless. they'll figure out how to get things to work. if it's not materially better than people will stay at your restaurant.
if you then open up 10 more restaurants off the success of your chicken parm and employ hundreds of more people than you are doing well and its a net positive for the community. if then you can sell the marinara and cheese that you use on your chicken parm seperately and create new revenue streams you are executing even better. if then a couple copy cats come along and build their own chicken parm similar to you than you are eventually going to get into a war of quality. the better executing company will sell the most chicken parms. right now Apple sells the best chicken parms, whether you prefer someone elses or not.
Nice metaphor!
Actually, that would be an analogy
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:30 pm
by ajalves
people now think everything should be free. fuck trademarks and copyrights
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:31 pm
by jsence2
shel311 wrote:jsence2 wrote:I guarantee you Apple had something to do with MegaUpload being taken down.
Piracy my ass, they were becoming a competitor of the Apple/iTunes store.
I'm no MegaUpload expert, but isn't downloading music/movies on that site for free, or any site for that matter, illegal?
They were making some moves towards legitimacy. I will look for a few articles a friend mentioned to me this morning that looked deeper into it.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:33 pm
by ajalves
jsence2 wrote:
They were making some moves towards legitimacy. I will look for a few articles a friend mentioned to me this morning that looked deeper into it.
so they should be allowed to operate illegaly since "X amount of time" from now they will be legit?
i assume they'll be back up when they get there
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:34 pm
by DRiccio21
jsence2 wrote:I guarantee you Apple had something to do with MegaUpload being taken down.
Piracy my ass, they were becoming a competitor of the Apple/iTunes store.
and why wouldn't they?
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:36 pm
by BIGmike
Chicken parm sub would hit the spot right now.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:44 pm
by jsence2
And the chicken parm analogy is bad, as Trendon stated, because the restaurant wouldn't be suing everyone else who used the same kind of cheese, or the same tomato farm, or decided to use the same plate pattern, or placed the cheese in the same spot on the chicken as they did, etc.
The crap Apple tries to sue people for is so stupid. They went after Samsung for their operating system having "bounce" effects in the menus. They had to add a blue thing to the end of the menus to keep from being sued. Because that's why people buy iphones--the "bounce" effect.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:02 pm
by DRiccio21
businesses try to crush other businesses (as i used in my restaurant analogy) with ridiculous lawsuits, stealing research, stealing ideas, etc on a daily basis. bigger ones like apple obviously have more ability to do so becaue they have a larger pool to draw from.... but it happens in finance, in technology, in energy, everywhere.
its all basic capitalism... eat or be eaten.
back to the original point... anyone who thinks Apple has been a net negative for our country is beyond crazy.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:46 pm
by calbrs04
DRiccio21 wrote:businesses try to crush other businesses (as i used in my restaurant analogy) with ridiculous lawsuits, stealing research, stealing ideas, etc on a daily basis. bigger ones like apple obviously have more ability to do so becaue they have a larger pool to draw from.... but it happens in finance, in technology, in energy, everywhere.
its all basic capitalism... eat or be eaten.
back to the original point... anyone who thinks Apple has been a net negative for our country is beyond crazy.
Not negative for the country, but it has dumbed down society as have a lot of other products that people go crazy about for no reason at all. iPhone, jordans, tickle-me elmo just to name a few.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:52 pm
by DRiccio21
calbrs04 wrote:
Not negative for the country, but it has dumbed down society as have a lot of other products that people go crazy about for no reason at all. iPhone, jordans, tickle-me elmo just to name a few.
but thats not Apples fault.
i also would go as far to say as Apple has helped the education process as much as any company i can think of in a long time.
my neice and nephew do their homework and educational games on their ipads, like they are toys. my neice speaks decent spanish from learning on her ipad, she's 5.
the dumbing down of America is because parenting is far worse and we have so many more broken homes... we also put so much value on materialistic things and the desire to be like people who are completely pointless (jersey shore, kardashians, etc) yet making a ton of money. the glorification of the ability to be rich and do nothing is hard to overcome when you don't have someone telling you differently at home. thats my opinion anyways.
Re: Apple Exec: "No obligation to solve America's problems"
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:07 pm
by iRoccafella
DRiccio21 wrote:calbrs04 wrote:
Not negative for the country, but it has dumbed down society as have a lot of other products that people go crazy about for no reason at all. iPhone, jordans, tickle-me elmo just to name a few.
but thats not Apples fault.
i also would go as far to say as Apple has helped the education process as much as any company i can think of in a long time.
my neice and nephew do their homework and educational games on their ipads, like they are toys. my neice speaks decent spanish from learning on her ipad, she's 5.
the dumbing down of America is because parenting is far worse and we have so many more broken homes... we also put so much value on materialistic things and the desire to be like people who are completely pointless (jersey shore, kardashians, etc) yet making a ton of money. the glorification of the ability to be rich and do nothing is hard to overcome when you don't have someone telling you differently at home. thats my opinion anyways.
Gonna have to side with you on this one. I mean technically by this rule if we were all "smart" consumers like our buddy Trendon, Apple would have fell on their faces with the iPhone (which a lot of people actually predicted way back when). But we are talking about a crowd who watches the jersey shore...
I think Apple has done a lot education-wise, but of course, they're doing it from a business standpoint. By no means would I ever say Apple is a consumer minded business model. Them boys play for keeps!
As for the chicken parm analogy, i think it should have been taken a step further, with a certain method of cheese processing or chicken raising. If they were doing something cutting-edge, and new, then yes you would sue the pants off of competitors for jacking your shit, and eating in to your profits. Should you have been smart enough to patent it in the first place? Of course. But now that it's out there, your not gonna lay down and take it.