ChampDizzle wrote: It starts withe the parents or lack thereof.
main issue.
main issue on everything in life.
media is a close second. having role models like the jersey shore and Kim Kardashian doesn't help.
100% accurate as well. I may watch crap from time to time, but never either of the ones you mention. My wife does though (never in front of the kids). I was in te kitchen the other night and she was watching MTV "the challenge" or something liek that. It was like twenty mid 20's people from a trailer park roid raging out. I thought, i cant believe this is what kids like or have as role models
a. Statistically relevant (a large enough sample size to be accurate and realistic)
b. Normalized against peers [so you aren't comparing teachers from high income communities (where there, ostensibly, would be fewer problems and/or better home/parent/tutor participation with students) against teachers from low income communities]
c. Run for several years on a "non-active" basis where teachers can get an idea of how they would be graded if such a system were in place and administrators would be able to observe how effective such a system would be and determine where appropriate tweaks would be made
If they just flat implement a system with no preparation and/or a "trial run" they're going to fail and everyone will go bat-shit crazy.
dakshdar wrote:A true performance pay system would have to be:
a. Statistically relevant (a large enough sample size to be accurate and realistic)
b. Normalized against peers [so you aren't comparing teachers from high income communities (where there, ostensibly, would be fewer problems and/or better home/parent/tutor participation with students) against teachers from low income communities]
c. Run for several years on a "non-active" basis where teachers can get an idea of how they would be graded if such a system were in place and administrators would be able to observe how effective such a system would be and determine where appropriate tweaks would be made
If they just flat implement a system with no preparation and/or a "trial run" they're going to fail and everyone will go bat-shit crazy.
you're also assuming there is no administrator bias which isnt always the case.
Also, what is the intended outcome. Higher standardized test scores? Higher school grade? Higher graduation rate?
performance pay and all that stuff to me is a bandaid on a broken system.
you always hear people say 'blow it up and start over'... thats not logical either.
leadership is the only way to change things, if you want a better education system you need to find ways to get top talent into the education field. not all, but most of the teachers i know got into the field for a) to help kids b) to get the summers off and 'b' isn't far enough seperated from A and the ones who were in it for 'a' often get disgusted by the system and have a hard time sticking to the reasons they got involved in the first place.
you need to figure out ways to get the people who are truly into education for the right reasons and then figure out ways to compensate brilliant minds to get into the sector and change things for the better. young creative minds in our country are thinking of ways to create new apps and new technology, how to run a more successful hedge funds and how to advance our medical fields... we need to figure out ways to get the top of the top to want to get into education and until their is better compensation i'm not sure how that is possible.
A proper performance pay model should allow teachers to move between districts to either higher challenging positions (lower income students) or higher achieving students (higher income students). Those teaching at the bottom 10% would be given higher compensation if they are able to improve the year over year results of their students, while those teaching in the top 10% should be given higher compensation if they are able to do the same.
AJ, would you favor a model that worked similar to the NDL, where you have goals in each area, and if you achieved those goals (over a 2-3 year period) you would have job mobility to look at bigger challenges or work with better students?
DRiccio21 wrote:performance pay and all that stuff to me is a bandaid on a broken system.
you always hear people say 'blow it up and start over'... thats not logical either.
leadership is the only way to change things, if you want a better education system you need to find ways to get top talent into the education field. not all, but most of the teachers i know got into the field for a) to help kids b) to get the summers off and 'b' isn't far enough seperated from A and the ones who were in it for 'a' often get disgusted by the system and have a hard time sticking to the reasons they got involved in the first place.
you need to figure out ways to get the people who are truly into education for the right reasons and then figure out ways to compensate brilliant minds to get into the sector and change things for the better. young creative minds in our country are thinking of ways to create new apps and new technology, how to run a more successful hedge funds and how to advance our medical fields... we need to figure out ways to get the top of the top to want to get into education and until their is better compensation i'm not sure how that is possible.
Spoiler!
The problem with this is you probably could get these people if you threw enough money at them, but I bet most of them are not willing to teach or take this leadership to lower income areas.
The majority of the problems with anything imo in the states, can be traced to economic status. The disparity between those who have and those who don't. When you have 20% of the population holding 85% of the wealth in this country, and the other 85% holding the other 15%, nothing is gonna change. Also with so many jobs shipped out of the country many executives feel that there is no need to have the large numbers of educated people we once needed. That those who can afford better education or more then capable pf filling the demand of the educated positions needed in US as a whole.
So why spend money on a failing educational system as whole and improve the education of the next generation. Just as example Education in California is 50th or 55th in terms of state budget . So the state feels that there is 54 more important things in the state to spend money on, then the education and betterment of school system to educate its future. There is something seriously wrong with that, and I m sure California is not the only state that is decreasing its budget lower and lower each year.
People in general just don't care enough any more, because many feel like it is hopeless to change anything, that their one voice will not change anything. The reason why many kids just don't try in low income areas. Yes we can't blame others for our own problems and there is ways to do better and get out. But how much do we wanna stack the deck against people who are already put in situations that are very hard to overcome, specially if their support group is not there for them.
Yes we need leadership, but first we need people to care again first. I guess you are kind of saying that too, but a few people is not enough. And we need people willing to act on their caring, not just complain from the sideline and not do anything.
My mother sadly is an example of this, but just as example and Trendon has touched on this many times although my political views differ from his in some ways. To many politic their voice specially when voting. For instance for voting on major offices, many people vote for the person they hate least or vote for the person they think is the lesser of 2 evils cause he actually has a shot at winning. I was talking to my mom, and we were talking about how Obama has really turned out to be nothing more then a moderate republican, as I have to see him really try to pass a liberal policy. And how this next election I was going to really do my homework and vote for the candidate that really represents my ideas, even if I do believe they are gonna win and convince others to do the same. Because if a enough people start to vote this way while our candidates may not win maybe the 2 major parties will start to realize if they really want to stay in office they may need to change their political views agendas to stay in office, and see we are no longer saying how things are running we are ok with. And my mom was like no no, you don't wanna do that why you wanna vote for someone who is not gonna win, you have to vote for the person that actually has a shot at winning.. And I as like why so they can continue to do what they been doing which is clearly not working at least in my view. Kill me slowly instead of the other guy winning and killing me quickly. I don't think so, and she just stated well your vote wont effect anything cause they wont win. Showing they people have just settled on well I ll vote this candidate cause he wont totally screw me.
This way of thinking I m sure just doesn't apply to voting, but I sure can applied to many things in many peoples life, why really care anymore if you feel change is hopeless. And unfortunately many people feel this way as it only takes so many disappointments from your plans not coming through.
Wow I just rambled on about all kind of shit and ended up off topic. Sort of. But I guess what I m trying to say is yes people like that is needed, but I don't see those people entering the educational field where it is needed most. And also while you cant make a student do anything, teachers shouldn't give up as well, because there is students who do want more, but they just need a little pushing, and encouragement because maybe that cant be found in their environment away from school. And I believe while there are some good teachers I seen a lot more bad teachers growing up who forgot that there is kids who want to excel and do better. And I agree as well the lack of parenting these days and the involvement of parents is another major reason why we have less and less kids caring about their education. Really it is just a horrible cycle that now exist in most public schools. It does really seem like people really just don't care enough anymore to make a collective change for the better.
LOL, made my reply a spoiler, its a lot of rambling and kind of goes off topic.. and I doubt people really wanna read this crap.. but I m posting it cause I typed it all already.
DRiccio21 wrote:performance pay and all that stuff to me is a bandaid on a broken system.
you always hear people say 'blow it up and start over'... thats not logical either.
leadership is the only way to change things, if you want a better education system you need to find ways to get top talent into the education field. not all, but most of the teachers i know got into the field for a) to help kids b) to get the summers off and 'b' isn't far enough seperated from A and the ones who were in it for 'a' often get disgusted by the system and have a hard time sticking to the reasons they got involved in the first place.
you need to figure out ways to get the people who are truly into education for the right reasons and then figure out ways to compensate brilliant minds to get into the sector and change things for the better. young creative minds in our country are thinking of ways to create new apps and new technology, how to run a more successful hedge funds and how to advance our medical fields... we need to figure out ways to get the top of the top to want to get into education and until their is better compensation i'm not sure how that is possible.
do you think that will happen considering our economy? The easiest place to make cuts is education, imo, and I can't imagine governments doing the opposite and raising salaries for teachers because that won't win votes.
Our government system is a joke because no one tries to get stuff done all they do is try to keep their jobs
DRiccio21 wrote:performance pay and all that stuff to me is a bandaid on a broken system.
you always hear people say 'blow it up and start over'... thats not logical either.
leadership is the only way to change things, if you want a better education system you need to find ways to get top talent into the education field. not all, but most of the teachers i know got into the field for a) to help kids b) to get the summers off and 'b' isn't far enough seperated from A and the ones who were in it for 'a' often get disgusted by the system and have a hard time sticking to the reasons they got involved in the first place.
you need to figure out ways to get the people who are truly into education for the right reasons and then figure out ways to compensate brilliant minds to get into the sector and change things for the better. young creative minds in our country are thinking of ways to create new apps and new technology, how to run a more successful hedge funds and how to advance our medical fields... we need to figure out ways to get the top of the top to want to get into education and until their is better compensation i'm not sure how that is possible.
do you think that will happen considering our economy? The easiest place to make cuts is education, imo, and I can't imagine governments doing the opposite and raising salaries for teachers because that won't win votes.
Our government system is a joke because no one tries to get stuff done all they do is try to keep their jobs
i wasn't saying paying 'teachers' more but getting better minds into administrator positions... people who can lead the teachers and can motivate or be creative.
with the cookie cutter broken system we have now its really hard to get that to happen and no i don't think it will happen.
i think there will be more and more cuts and schooling will become more and more privatized... basically how i feel everything else in the public sector going (fire dept's, police dept's, etc)
VeniVediV1ci wrote:[The easiest place to make cuts is education, imo, and I can't imagine governments doing the opposite and raising salaries for teachers because that won't win votes.
No, the easiest place to make cuts is in high level government salaries and pensions, i.e. Senator and Representative salary and their pension for life.
