NDL Forum

GeorgesGoons wrote:
You can't lump up senseless shootings like this weekend with gang violence where the only others shot were other gang bangers. The image shows that Mexico has only 3 mass shootings this year. I am sure there have been a lot more than just 3. Doing a quick google search of Mexican Cartel shootings show 2 in the last month.

The aftermath of these shootings only offer divisiveness among us all. And then in 2 weeks nobody will care except the friends and families of the victims. It's the nature of the beast here. If people truly cared we already would have laws to prevent all of this from happening. There is zero reason to have a magazine like this for the average person. It serves zero purpose. Make it where you have to have a class III license to own one.

That's crazy talk. Tons of those shootings in Chicago, Baltimore, whatever commonly claimed city, are gang targeted and result in many innocent by standers dying.

ReignOnU wrote:

GeorgesGoons wrote:
You can't lump up senseless shootings like this weekend with gang violence where the only others shot were other gang bangers. The image shows that Mexico has only 3 mass shootings this year. I am sure there have been a lot more than just 3. Doing a quick google search of Mexican Cartel shootings show 2 in the last month.

The aftermath of these shootings only offer divisiveness among us all. And then in 2 weeks nobody will care except the friends and families of the victims. It's the nature of the beast here. If people truly cared we already would have laws to prevent all of this from happening. There is zero reason to have a magazine like this for the average person. It serves zero purpose. Make it where you have to have a class III license to own one.

That's crazy talk. Tons of those shootings in Chicago, Baltimore, whatever commonly claimed city, are gang targeted and result in many innocent by standers dying.

I'm not talking about innocent bystanders. Just saying to lump up when only criminals killing criminals shouldn't be lumped in with what happened this weekend to push a narrative.

How about instead of blaming entire groups of people....be it political or racial, we blame the individuals and the people who saw warning signs but did nothing? Maybe if we stop dividing ourselves some healing can actually take place.

When I've previous looked into mass shooting statistics, what you're describing is a very low impact. Most gang related mass shootings involve innocent bystanders, thus making them viable count.

I absolutely agree on personal accountability. Wait until everything leaks out about the Dayton shooter, it's a real crap show.

I'm kind of laying low on this because it's friend-of-a-friend kind of stuff, but one my wife's friends, whose daughter was at our house last night, knows the family pretty well. Going through Facebook, there are all kinds of people speaking out about him and based on their accounts and who we have mutual connections with, I feel like I believe what they are saying.

ReignOnU wrote:

wdoupis wrote:

The_Niddler wrote:W
They look at cities like Chicago, where they have some of the strictest laws in America and yet, they have some of the worst gun violence rates.
So people look at that and say like George did about drugs. If guns can still get into Chicago, where they are not allowed, they will still get into criminals hands no matter what laws you put in place.

This is honestly the worst argument and just a Fox News point to confuse people. There are 2 states that are 30 minutes from Chicago that are some of the most gun friendly states in the country. It does not matter that it is strict in Chicago because you can go 15 miles to Indiana or 50 miles to Wisconsin and buy whatever the hell you want. There are not border check points. What is happening in Chicago means nothing as far as the effectiveness of strict gun control laws.

I really do not know how people can hear this and think it makes any sense at all.

I really don't know how people can think that the majority of guns in Chicago are being purchased legally in Indiana or Wisconsin, under their gun laws.

Is there a small amount of crossover, yes. But the majority of guns in Chicago are blackmarket and trafficked.

I am not saying the majority are purchased legally in those states but what you are saying about being purchased on black market just adds to my point as it is another reason to not say "well Chicago has strict gun laws so it does not work." At the end of the day there are just far too many guns in the states and its far too easy to get them.

I agree with everyone besides what George is saying. There is no reason to need 20-30 round mags, no normal citizen needs assault weapons and weapons built for war. Hell, I've shot them a thousand times when I was in the army and as a contractor and its super fucking fun but normal citizens do not need that.

If someone is severely mentally ill and wants to go kill a bunch of people we are by far the easiest country to do it in because our gun laws are just way too lenient

To add to what George is saying so what if stricter laws just make it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. They are guns, it should be hard to get. They are built for the sole purpose of killing things, if it takes some time and is a complicated process then so be it.

wdoupis wrote:To add to what George is saying so what if stricter laws just make it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. They are guns, it should be hard to get. They are built for the sole purpose of killing things, if it takes some time and is a complicated process then so be it.

I'm okay with making it hard to get guns. But to get rid of AR's because they look scary is just stupid, they are no more deadly than a semi automatic handgun with 13 rounds in it. If you want to bump up semi automatic guns to a higher level of gun license I am fine with it, but that needs to include all semi automatic guns.

But the problem is the NRA and therefore Republicans (not getting in a political fight but even Republicans know they are slaves to the NRA money) want to do absolutely nothing. Whatever you think about it the answer is definitely not... no problem lets keep moving along here.

wdoupis wrote:But the problem is the NRA and therefore Republicans (not getting in a political fight but even Republicans know they are slaves to the NRA money) want to do absolutely nothing. Whatever you think about it the answer is definitely not... no problem lets keep moving along here.

The problem is that this is a political issue, it's never been a humanity issue when it comes to coming up with solutions. This isn't new with president Trump. President Obama had a super majority and this could have been fixed then, the Republicans have had super majorities as well and nothing was fixed then either. Each side of the isle blames each other but neither want to fix it and could care less, no matter what they say on TV.

GeorgesGoons wrote:

wdoupis wrote:But the problem is the NRA and therefore Republicans (not getting in a political fight but even Republicans know they are slaves to the NRA money) want to do absolutely nothing. Whatever you think about it the answer is definitely not... no problem lets keep moving along here.

The problem is that this is a political issue, it's never been a humanity issue when it comes to coming up with solutions. This isn't new with president Trump. President Obama had a super majority and this could have been fixed then, the Republicans have had super majorities as well and nothing was fixed then either. Each side of the isle blames each other but neither want to fix it and could care less, no matter what they say on TV.

Except Obama never really had a supermajority. He only had 58 to start because of challenging of Al Franken's seat. When Specter switched parties it got them to 59 (Would have been 60 if Franken counted) but then Byrd got sick and was out of commission so when Franken did count they still only had 59. Then Kennedy died, went back down 1. Once Scott Brown took his seat in February that was that. This whole "Obama had a super majority for his first 2 years" is just a lazy talking point as well

GeorgesGoons wrote:the Republicans have had super majorities as well and nothing was fixed then either. Each side of the isle blames each other but neither want to fix it and could care less, no matter what they say on TV.

Republicans have had a ton of chances to fix it but they think its because of video games and not enough prayer. You can't honestly think that Republicans are not totally aligned with the NRA.

wdoupis wrote:

GeorgesGoons wrote:

wdoupis wrote:But the problem is the NRA and therefore Republicans (not getting in a political fight but even Republicans know they are slaves to the NRA money) want to do absolutely nothing. Whatever you think about it the answer is definitely not... no problem lets keep moving along here.

The problem is that this is a political issue, it's never been a humanity issue when it comes to coming up with solutions. This isn't new with president Trump. President Obama had a super majority and this could have been fixed then, the Republicans have had super majorities as well and nothing was fixed then either. Each side of the isle blames each other but neither want to fix it and could care less, no matter what they say on TV.

Except Obama never really had a supermajority. He only had 58 to start because of challenging of Al Franken's seat. When Specter switched parties it got them to 59 (Would have been 60 if Franken counted) but then Byrd got sick and was out of commission so when Franken did count they still only had 59. Then Kennedy died, went back down 1. Once Scott Brown took his seat in February that was that. This whole "Obama had a super majority for his first 2 years" is just a lazy talking point as well

Don't they need 66% of the vote to override a veto and only 51% to pass a law? They had the Congress, Senate and the Presidency. They should have been able to pass any law they wanted (ACA being one the right couldn't stop as an example).

Its 60% if the government is supposed to function as its meant to. With how things are getting worse the past decade if calling for a "cloture vote" to make it 51% is considered the new normal then yes, I guess you could say that

Just throwing it out there, but I think if Trump is re-elected, we will see stricter gun laws. If the Dem candidate is a far left, we may even see it sooner than that.

I have no faith in Trump doing that as its goes against so much of what his die hard base supports but maybe with no elections to win after he would do something like that. If you believe the idea that Ivanka or Don Jr are being groomed for 2024 then no way he does something like that.

wdoupis wrote:I have no faith in Trump doing that as its goes against so much of what his die hard base supports but maybe with no elections to win after he would do something like that. If you believe the idea that Ivanka or Don Jr are being groomed for 2024 then no way he does something like that.

Trump is more center than most republicans and typical RINOs. He's also brash. If there is a far left candidate that he doesn't feel threatened by, he can push stricter gun laws during an election year and any tea party vote that would sit home could be offset by former Dem moderate voters that fear the extreme ideas of their candidate.

As for 2024, I think Jr. may have crossed too many lines to pull a nomination at any point in his future. I don't think Ivanka could win a republican nomination because as of right now, she is too liberal.

I don't think it would be that hard to pass legislation that blocks the sale of something like this.

If you haven't seen it, this is what was used in Dayton. The gun was legally purchased. The drum magazine is legal. 40+ people hit within a minute (30 seconds if you believe some of the stated responses times). No way anyone needs to be able to legally own this.

ReignOnU wrote:

I don't think it would be that hard to pass legislation that blocks the sale of something like this.

It shouldn't be hard to pass a law banning this. But it will never happen. Make these fall under Class III licenses (machine gun license like .50 cal's and what not).

Yes it will never happen and it is because of the same group of politicians over and over. When enough people die maybe people will vote with this in mind

wdoupis wrote:Yes it will never happen and it is because of the same group of politicians over and over. When enough people die maybe people will vote with this in mind

The comment comes across as a politically biased statement. This has nothing to do with the right or left. Both have been able to pass a law like this before and both have never done so. The left doesn't care any more than the right when it comes to these laws. They both could care less about us, whether it is gun laws, immigration or any other law that helps the average American out.