NDL Forum

America on Gun Issues:

wdoupis wrote:Thought and prayers, it’s mental illness, anything but the guns!!!!! Fucking morons

Would hate to debate this now...but it's not the guns. It's about as much the guns as it is the forks for obesity. It's hate and/or mental illness

GeorgesGoons wrote:

wdoupis wrote:Thought and prayers, it’s mental illness, anything but the guns!!!!! Fucking morons

Would hate to debate this now...but it's not the guns. It's about as much the guns as it is the forks for obesity. It's hate and/or mental illness

Lol, that is just so wrong. Are they mentally ill, sure. Are they fueled with hate because of life, social media, and whatever else, sure. They are killing people with guns though, that forks thing is fucking stupid. We are not more mentally ill in America than every other country, we are not the only ones with media outlets like we have or the only ones with social media extremists but we are the ones that make it extremely easy to buy guns for everyone. Its the guns man, its always been the guns and it will always be the guns

Why do we people argue this topic like it has to be one or the other?


It's both.

shel311 wrote:Why do we people argue this topic like it has to be one or the other?


It's both.

100% it's both, but to blame guns is only used to push stricter gun laws on law abiding citizens which in turn makes it more difficult for them to get a gun while criminals can get guns easily.

We hear about these semi automatic weapons being the culprit but handguns kill more people and are more easily concealed for someone that wants to create havoc.

GeorgesGoons wrote:

shel311 wrote:Why do we people argue this topic like it has to be one or the other?


It's both.

100% it's both, but to blame guns is only used to pushstricter gun laws on law abiding citizens which in turn makes it more difficult for them to get a gun while criminals can get guns easily.

We hear about these semi automatic weapons being the culprit but handguns kill more people and are more easily concealed for someone that wants to create havoc.

do people truly believe this?

nick wrote:

GeorgesGoons wrote:

shel311 wrote:Why do we people argue this topic like it has to be one or the other?


It's both.

100% it's both, but to blame guns is only used to pushstricter gun laws on law abiding citizens which in turn makes it more difficult for them to get a gun while criminals can get guns easily.

We hear about these semi automatic weapons being the culprit but handguns kill more people and are more easily concealed for someone that wants to create havoc.

do people truly believe this?

What does more laws do when it comes to acquiring a gun? It makes it harder for the law abiding citizen to get a gun. How do you not understand that?

And fwiw, I only have a shotgun that I got from when my dad died. So it's not like I am stockpiling guns here. I got to shoot enough of them in the Army.

ya.. almost every other country in the world has strict gun laws and they dont have frequent mass shootings like the US..

also what are "strict" gun laws to you? The gun laws are pretty much are you a criminal? are you mentally stable? Do you know how ot use it?

which of these "strict" laws would you like abolished? You dont care who has a gun? Like I dont follow the "strict" logic. It makes it so retards cant get guns and cause mass shootings.. seems simple enough.

nick wrote:ya.. almost every other country in the world has strict gun laws and they dont have frequent mass shootings like the US..

also what are "strict" gun laws to you? The gun laws are pretty much are you a criminal? are you mentally stable? Do you know how ot use it?

which of these "strict" laws would you like abolished? You dont care who has a gun? Like I dont follow the "strict" logic. It makes it so retards cant get guns and cause mass shootings.. seems simple enough.

I think where we are at now with laws is fine. You have to have a back ground check. Now there is a wait period so you can't get one the same day, as well as limits on people with mental disabilities.

Here in Omaha, we have another step that some locations do not. We cannot apply at a gun shop or gun show to buy a gun. We have to go to the county sheriffs office and have our back ground check done there, finger printed and some other stuff. Then you can go buy your gun. I'm fine with this but don't limit me to only certain guns because you (law makers and media) feel more safe now.

I am fine with all those laws. But when it comes to new gun laws, there are some on the extreme left that want to get rid of anything that looks like an "military rifle" all based on looks. There are .22 caliber AR's out there, no where near as lethal as a 357 hand gun. But since it looks like a weapon of war they want to get rid of it. It's that kind of dumb shit that feeds the false narrative. It is that thought process that we are against any new laws.

When do we start subjecting people to searches of their social media accounts and internet search history?

"Oh, sorry, you hate all the people of 'fill in the blank race here'... no guns for you."

its 250*

also remember this isnt cause of guns.. its mental health issues..

nick wrote:

its 250*

also remember this isnt cause of guns.. its mental health issues..

What constitutes as a mass shooting according to this guy? 250 for the US this year? I honestly couldn't tell you where that number comes from. This weekend was 29, last weekend was 3, and I don't know where any of the others are. I just don't recall that many shootings this year

While I can understand what George is trying to say, I also understand this as a gun owner who used to own quite a few guns...

To George's argument about the fork, this is where I can see what he is trying to say.
If someone is killed by a car, do we blame the car? No, So why are we blaming the guns?
Before you lash out, I am not saying I agree with him.

I will say, there really is no need for someone to own a military based gun for home use.
If I am worried about intruders in my home, a shotgun is far more effective than an AR15 since you will be at close range against the intruder.
I had an SKS, same gun as an AK47, same ammo and everything, I would never think of grabbing that for home defense over my pistols or shotgun.
There was really no need to own that gun, except for pure fun or because I could.
I sold mine as I never used it.

My issue is not really the guns though, it is the capacity they have with the larger magazines.
There really is no need for someone to have a magazine that holds 20-30 rounds or more.
My pistols all hold 9 shots and that is more than enough for home defense.

When you look at a picture like this, this is why I hate the "Assault Rifle" argument:


Media will see the bottom gun and freak out saying it is an assault rifle and should be banned, yet, it is exactly the same gun as the top one in the picture.

With all of that said, I want to turn to George's point about the gun laws, because personally, I never understood this argument.
I have said since day 1, make the laws more strict, please do.
As a law abiding citizen, I will still be able to pass any check or any rule you put in place and in the end, I will still be able to buy the gun(s) that I want to buy.
So please, put more laws into effect.

On the flip side of that, I can completely understand the gun owner's argument.
They look at cities like Chicago, where they have some of the strictest laws in America and yet, they have some of the worst gun violence rates.
So people look at that and say like George did about drugs. If guns can still get into Chicago, where they are not allowed, they will still get into criminals hands no matter what laws you put in place.
But in my opinion, that doesn't change the fact that we need stricter gun laws and as I mentioned, doesn't bother me because in the end, I will still be able to legally buy the guns that I want since I have no criminal background or mental health issues.

you're looking for answers to illogical acts by using logic. it's a waste of energy.

every argument ever made for why this stuff happens is a small bit correct... but none of them are the encompassing reason.

the only answer is to spread love. offer empathy/grace and show humility to those who you may disagree with rather than being egotistical and trying to prove to everyone why you are right and they are wrong. love alone doesn't change the chaos but it can help empower people who are lost and living without direction if they can find their own purpose and realize others care. and when we empower other people to shine we get to see the best version of everyone which allows us to learn from other points of views, rather than those scared/angry views being suppressed due to fear

people are not bad, the overwhelming mass of people are unbelievable kind and loving. however .01% of the people who do these evil act paralyze the 99.99% to believe that people are bad. we live tensed up and in fear and anger. believe in the good and share your good without fear or need for approval, do it because it is the right way to live and you will make your surroundings better. when the masses start to believe in that power of love the entire paradigm shifts.

GeorgesGoons wrote:

nick wrote:

its 250*

also remember this isnt cause of guns.. its mental health issues..

What constitutes as a mass shooting according to this guy? 250 for the US this year? I honestly couldn't tell you where that number comes from. This weekend was 29, last weekend was 3, and I don't know where any of the others are. I just don't recall that many shootings this year

I can't see nick's image while at work, but to read your comments George, my thought is, who cares what constitutes a mass shooting?
1 is too many.

I saw a picture on social media that stated, my problem with saying Today's shooting, is having to use the word, today.

To my previous post about the magazines, Dayton is a prime example.
The shooter had magazines containing 100 rounds. The shooting he did, although it lasted only about 30 seconds, he killed nine people and injured 27 others in under a minute.

The_Niddler wrote:W
They look at cities like Chicago, where they have some of the strictest laws in America and yet, they have some of the worst gun violence rates.
So people look at that and say like George did about drugs. If guns can still get into Chicago, where they are not allowed, they will still get into criminals hands no matter what laws you put in place.

This is honestly the worst argument and just a Fox News point to confuse people. There are 2 states that are 30 minutes from Chicago that are some of the most gun friendly states in the country. It does not matter that it is strict in Chicago because you can go 15 miles to Indiana or 50 miles to Wisconsin and buy whatever the hell you want. There are not border check points. What is happening in Chicago means nothing as far as the effectiveness of strict gun control laws.

I really do not know how people can hear this and think it makes any sense at all.

DRiccio21 wrote:you're looking for answers to illogical acts by using logic. it's a waste of energy.

every argument ever made for why this stuff happens is a small bit correct... but none of them are the encompassing reason.

the only answer is to spread love. offer empathy/grace and show humility to those who you may disagree with rather than being egotistical and trying to prove to everyone why you are right and they are wrong. love alone doesn't change the chaos but it can help empower people who are lost and living without direction if they can find their own purpose and realize others care. and when we empower other people to shine we get to see the best version of everyone which allows us to learn from other points of views, rather than those scared/angry views being suppressed due to fear

people are not bad, the overwhelming mass of people are unbelievable kind and loving. however .01% of the people who do these evil act paralyze the 99.99% to believe that people are bad. we live tensed up and in fear and anger. believe in the good and share your good without fear or need for approval, do it because it is the right way to live and you will make your surroundings better. when the masses start to believe in that power of love the entire paradigm shifts.

Love your message. I do feel like you're overly minimizing our ability to influence the situation though. We can and should have stricter laws. We can and should do a better job addressing mental health (feeding medication like they are pez is ridiculous). We can and should stop the fear mongering and hate. We can and should stop sensationalizing so many things in society.

I saw a post pop up on a few different friends' Facebook accounts and it really disappointed me. It had to do with stereotyping what is said based on the race of a shooter, in an attempt to mock the mental health issue. Stuff like that serves no other purpose than to divide. You're not cutely calling out anything. There are clear, known links in many cases. To ignore any of them, for any race, is silly.

wdoupis wrote:

The_Niddler wrote:W
They look at cities like Chicago, where they have some of the strictest laws in America and yet, they have some of the worst gun violence rates.
So people look at that and say like George did about drugs. If guns can still get into Chicago, where they are not allowed, they will still get into criminals hands no matter what laws you put in place.

This is honestly the worst argument and just a Fox News point to confuse people. There are 2 states that are 30 minutes from Chicago that are some of the most gun friendly states in the country. It does not matter that it is strict in Chicago because you can go 15 miles to Indiana or 50 miles to Wisconsin and buy whatever the hell you want. There are not border check points. What is happening in Chicago means nothing as far as the effectiveness of strict gun control laws.

I really do not know how people can hear this and think it makes any sense at all.

I really don't know how people can think that the majority of guns in Chicago are being purchased legally in Indiana or Wisconsin, under their gun laws.

Is there a small amount of crossover, yes. But the majority of guns in Chicago are blackmarket and trafficked.

The_Niddler wrote:

GeorgesGoons wrote:

nick wrote:

its 250*

also remember this isnt cause of guns.. its mental health issues..

What constitutes as a mass shooting according to this guy? 250 for the US this year? I honestly couldn't tell you where that number comes from. This weekend was 29, last weekend was 3, and I don't know where any of the others are. I just don't recall that many shootings this year

I can't see nick's image while at work, but to read your comments George, my thought is, who cares what constitutes a mass shooting?
1 is too many.

I saw a picture on social media that stated, my problem with saying Today's shooting, is having to use the word, today.

To my previous post about the magazines, Dayton is a prime example.
The shooter had magazines containing 100 rounds. The shooting he did, although it lasted only about 30 seconds, he killed nine people and injured 27 others in under a minute.

You can't lump up senseless shootings like this weekend with gang violence where the only others shot were other gang bangers. The image shows that Mexico has only 3 mass shootings this year. I am sure there have been a lot more than just 3. Doing a quick google search of Mexican Cartel shootings show 2 in the last month.

The aftermath of these shootings only offer divisiveness among us all. And then in 2 weeks nobody will care except the friends and families of the victims. It's the nature of the beast here. If people truly cared we already would have laws to prevent all of this from happening. There is zero reason to have a magazine like this for the average person. It serves zero purpose. Make it where you have to have a class III license to own one.

ReignOnU wrote:

wdoupis wrote:

The_Niddler wrote:W
They look at cities like Chicago, where they have some of the strictest laws in America and yet, they have some of the worst gun violence rates.
So people look at that and say like George did about drugs. If guns can still get into Chicago, where they are not allowed, they will still get into criminals hands no matter what laws you put in place.

This is honestly the worst argument and just a Fox News point to confuse people. There are 2 states that are 30 minutes from Chicago that are some of the most gun friendly states in the country. It does not matter that it is strict in Chicago because you can go 15 miles to Indiana or 50 miles to Wisconsin and buy whatever the hell you want. There are not border check points. What is happening in Chicago means nothing as far as the effectiveness of strict gun control laws.

I really do not know how people can hear this and think it makes any sense at all.

I really don't know how people can think that the majority of guns in Chicago are being purchased legally in Indiana or Wisconsin, under their gun laws.

Is there a small amount of crossover, yes. But the majority of guns in Chicago are blackmarket and trafficked.

All illegal and not one law would ever stop these criminals from getting. Additional laws only hurt the law abiding. Yes, I know the guys got theirs legally but they are criminals. If someone has the intentions of hurting others you can't stop them if they show zero propensity to do so before it happens.