Tiger/Golf

[shel311]

All those highlights you see today with the crazy hard fouls, that wasn't the norm back then. It may not happen any more, but people take that to mean that's just how defense was played back then when in reality, those crazy hard fouls didn't happen all that often, certainly not a normal, every game type of occurrence.

But generally speaking, there was no defense played in the 80s. The 90s were certainly physical, especially mid to late 90s. But it wasn't necessarily good defense compared to today, it was just really physical.

[LetsGoPeay]

The athletes are way, way better. Guys used to smoke at halftime of games. Diets, nutrition, and fitness were almost non-existent compared to today. There's a ton of other reasons why the players are better but those are two of the big ones.

[wdoupis]

I am so proud of egging this on as you guys are entertainment worthy. Thanks!

I appreciate it, as I thought I had it started last night, but didn't get it there.

Only problem is Billy has LeBron as "top 10" and I refuse to debate with anyone that unwilling to be rational. It was fun while it lasted for 2 hours!!!

I honestly do not know how saying someone is one of the 10 greatest people to ever do something is an insult. I also said he is one of the top 3 talents ever. I just do not think you can say 100% definitively that he is better than Kobe and especially Duncan among others a few others.

I'll take the W though, thanks for playing

[shel311]

I didn't say it was an insult, I said it was irrational.

I just do not think you can say 100% definitively that he is better than Kobe

I'm saying it right now, there's literally no argument for Kobe being better for LeBron...literally.

[GeorgesGoons]

I didn't say it was an insult, I said it was irrational.

I just do not think you can say 100% definitively that he is better than Kobe

I'm saying it right now, there's literally no argument for Kobe being better for LeBron...literally.

I agree with Shel here. But it may be because I was never a fan of Kobe.

LeBron is doing things he shouldn't be a Le to physically do at that size

[Cnasty]

Shel eats up the physicalness, heart, and quitter arguments like a breakfast buffet at Shoneys.

You gotta come better than that as he will drop metrics and something someone tweeted from a stat geek on dat ass.

Just a heads up.

[shel311]

Are they still making Shoneys? I can't recall the last time I've seen a Shoney's.

[The_Niddler]

All those highlights you see today with the crazy hard fouls, that wasn't the norm back then. It may not happen any more, but people take that to mean that's just how defense was played back then when in reality, those crazy hard fouls didn't happen all that often, certainly not a normal, every game type of occurrence.

But generally speaking, there was no defense played in the 80s. The 90s were certainly physical, especially mid to late 90s. But it wasn't necessarily good defense compared to today, it was just really physical.

The Detroit Pistons of then disagree with you.

[shel311]

But generally speaking, there was no defense played in the 80s.

[Cnasty]

Are they still making Shoneys? I can't recall the last time I've seen a Shoney's.

Definitely haven't seen one in Texas but man childhood memories of road trips in Florida and Shoneys breakfast!

[wdoupis]

Shel eats up the physicalness, heart, and quitter arguments like a breakfast buffet at Shoneys.

You gotta come better than that as he will drop metrics and something someone tweeted from a stat geek on dat ass.

Just a heads up.

Only one of us has used any statistical data today, I debunked the very weak jump shot argument in about 2 posts and never heard from it again

[wdoupis]

I didn't say it was an insult, I said it was irrational.

I just do not think you can say 100% definitively that he is better than Kobe

I'm saying it right now, there's literally no argument for Kobe being better for LeBron...literally.

I think Lebron is better but there absolutely is an argument for Kobe. He did not really have a weakness, you could not just play 5 feet off of him and let him shoot like so many do with Lebron. I don't think it makes any sense to say they are not even in the same tier or conversation.

[nick]

how come Kobe > lebron? Is it cause of 5 rings? 4 of them he was #2 on his team in PER? yaaa... ...

[shel311]

I didn't say it was an insult, I said it was irrational.

I just do not think you can say 100% definitively that he is better than Kobe

I'm saying it right now, there's literally no argument for Kobe being better for LeBron...literally.

I think Lebron is better but there absolutely is an argument for Kobe. He did not really have a weakness, you could not just play 5 feet off of him and let him shoot like so many do with Lebron. I don't think it makes any sense to say they are not even in the same tier or conversation.

Lebron does everything better than Kobe, other than free throws.

How can it possibly make any sense today Kobe is better, or anywhere near Lebron's level? It's not even close by any objective measure.

[wdoupis]

Kobe is better at every aspect of shooting other than inside the paint than Lebron, that is definitely not debatable. What about TD? Why do you think Lebron is so much better than Duncan that he is not in the conversation?

[shel311]

Lebron is better at scoring and scoring not efficiently so the shooting thing is irrelevant.

Lebron is better than Duncan because, again, he's played the game at a level for 14 seasons than Duncan hasn't sustained. And again, it's not very close.

Lebron is closer to MJ than Kobe is to lebron, much closer comparatively.

[wdoupis]

Did you just say a level Duncan has not sustained? He was elite from the start of his career to the very end. He won more than Lebron, certainly is a better teammate, and played at a much higher level defensively his entire career. Do not give me the Lebron can guard all 5 positions and chase down block crap. When Lebron is locked in he is a great defender like most stars but those times are few and far between, TD was an elite defender his entire career. The only thing that would even make me think about taking Lebron over Duncan is the way the game is played now and even then its close.

[shel311]

Did you just say a level Duncan has not sustained?

Yes, and all of the data agrees with me, by a comfortable margin. LeBron is clearly better than Duncan.

If you think Duncan is better, than by default, you have to think Duncan is almost as good as MJ, so...



You're just wayyyyyyyyy too biased against LeBron, obviously.

[shel311]

For reference:

Duncan's best PER ever is lower than Lebron's average PER. Duncan's best WS/48 ever is slightly higher than LEbron's average WS/48. LeBron has a higher TS%, Duncan's career best TS% again is lower than Lebron's career avg.

And if you like counting stats, 19/11 with 3 assists and 2.2 blocks is nowhere near 27/7/7.

[wdoupis]

I think Lebron is an all time great. I also think he is not the best of teammates and that he has bailed on his teams at times and those things matter. To say he is obviously the 2nd best ever and no reasonable argument can be made against it is just not true.

As far as being bias I am not. There are a lot of things he says and does that make him very unlikable to a lot of people and yeah I am one of them but thats just personal opinion/preference.

The TD argument I am not going to say he is clearly better, no way. Different positions so many stats do not translate but TD was the greatest big man of all time in my eyes and one of the best ever. He played at an elite level on both ends of the floor from start to finish and he won much more (I'll ignore the fact that Lebron has tried to carve the easiest path to a title for the last decade)