Random Discussions

[Crowes]

I'm sorry but you can watch the video and see the cops escalated the situation with the aggressive tactics that have become common place.

There's no video of it as of now, and you don't know what tactics they used or what the guy did or said that led them to that point, so again, you're making factual type statements without facts to support them. This all goes back to needing more facts before making definitive statements.



And also, let's remember they came to the call for a guy waving a gun and that guy was then resisting arrest, they probably felt they had to diffuse the situation at some point before something really bad happened with innocent bystanders around, right?

He was being harassed by some homeless guy and showed him his gun to get him to go away and the homeless guy called the cops.

[The_Niddler]

Well you don't brandish a weapon unless you plan to use it.
The cops were called to a situation where they were most likely told the guy pulled a gun on the homeless man.
So, in their mind, they were walking into a bad situation.

There is always way more to the story.
You cannot expect to understand the entire situation from a 1:26 clip.

[shel311]

No the reality is cops are not god if they had treated that man with a little more respect

The reality is you don't know how they treated before the footage started rolling.

[Crowes]

Well you don't brandish a weapon unless you plan to use it.
The cops were called to a situation where they were most likely told the guy pulled a gun on the homeless man.
So, in their mind, they were walking into a bad situation.

There is always way more to the story.
You cannot expect to understand the entire situation from a 1:26 clip.

It doesnt matter what they thought they were walking into because obviously from the video the gun was still in the guys pocket after they killed him so no gun was being brandished towards them you shouldnt be able to keep escalating the situation and claim you felt threatened to get away with killing people which happens all to often.

[shel311]

It doesnt matter what they thought they were walking into because obviously from the video the gun was still in the guys pocket after they killed him so no gun was being brandished towards them you shouldnt be able to keep escalating the situation and claim you felt threatened to get away with killing people which happens all to often.

You do realize that if you wait until he brandishes the gun toward you, it's too late and you're getting shot, right?

[Crowes]

It doesnt matter what they thought they were walking into because obviously from the video the gun was still in the guys pocket after they killed him so no gun was being brandished towards them you shouldnt be able to keep escalating the situation and claim you felt threatened to get away with killing people which happens all to often.

You do realize that if you wait until he brandishes the gun toward you, it's too late and you're getting shot, right?

You do realize that their were 2 of them right? They chose to get try and tackle the guy which in turn escalated the situation where a split second decision had to made and they made the wrong one.

And with two cops their with at least with one's gun already drawn you really think this guy would have been able to get to his weapon remove it from his pocket and shoot at these guys before the cops shot him first? Come on now.....

[shel311]

It doesnt matter what they thought they were walking into because obviously from the video the gun was still in the guys pocket after they killed him so no gun was being brandished towards them you shouldnt be able to keep escalating the situation and claim you felt threatened to get away with killing people which happens all to often.

You do realize that if you wait until he brandishes the gun toward you, it's too late and you're getting shot, right?

You do realize that their were 2 of them right? They chose to get try and tackle the guy which in turn escalated the situation where a split second decision had to made and they made the wrong one.

That's a separate point, that deflects from your take that they should wait until the gun is pointed at them. 2 different things.

Also, according to witnesses they were talking first, then it evolved to 2 shots with a taser, still did not take him down or get him to comply, so what would you suggest?


Also, again you're making assumptions to say they made the wrong split second decision. Based on the info we have, you simply cannot say that if you're trying to be unbiased.

[shel311]

And with two cops their with at least with one's gun already drawn you really think this guy would have been able to get to his weapon remove it from his pocket and shoot at these guys before the cops shot him first? Come on now.....

Depending on the size of the gun, why exactly would he need to remove it from his pocket to shoot?

If it's not a huge gun, he could very easily angle up towards the cop at his legs and shoot him, wouldn't you agree?

[Crowes]

And with two cops their with at least with one's gun already drawn you really think this guy would have been able to get to his weapon remove it from his pocket and shoot at these guys before the cops shot him first? Come on now.....

Depending on the size of the gun, why exactly would he need to remove it from his pocket to shoot?

If it's not a huge gun, he could very easily angle up towards the cop at his legs and shoot him, wouldn't you agree?

If were talking about Jason borne here maybe but we arent.

[shel311]

And with two cops their with at least with one's gun already drawn you really think this guy would have been able to get to his weapon remove it from his pocket and shoot at these guys before the cops shot him first? Come on now.....

Depending on the size of the gun, why exactly would he need to remove it from his pocket to shoot?

If it's not a huge gun, he could very easily angle up towards the cop at his legs and shoot him, wouldn't you agree?

If were talking about Jason borne here maybe but we arent.

1. Making assumptions again. Again, if it's not a huge gun, I don't think it would be anywhere near impossible given that the cop is right on top of him.

2. Are you saying the cop should wait and find out if he could do it?

[Crowes]

And with two cops their with at least with one's gun already drawn you really think this guy would have been able to get to his weapon remove it from his pocket and shoot at these guys before the cops shot him first? Come on now.....

Depending on the size of the gun, why exactly would he need to remove it from his pocket to shoot?

If it's not a huge gun, he could very easily angle up towards the cop at his legs and shoot him, wouldn't you agree?

If were talking about Jason borne here maybe but we arent.

1. Making assumptions again. Again, if it's not a huge gun, I don't think it would be anywhere near impossible given that the cop is right on top of him.

2. Are you saying the cop should wait and find out if he could do it?

Well considering the other half of his body was pinned under the car with the said cop on top of him it's highly unlikely. Buy still doesn't solve the problem of overly aggressive policing that lead to this imo

[shel311]

Well considering the other half of his body was pinned under the car with the said cop on top of him it's highly unlikely.

His shoulder was moving up and down, he had a range of movement. Are you insinuating he couldn't get his hand in his pocket based on being near the car?

Buy still doesn't solve the problem of overly aggressive policing that lead to this imo

How can you know this without knowing what happened before the video was rolling?


Maybe they were talking to the guy before(witnesses state this), maybe he was making threats, and they felt he needed to be subdued immediately. Back to the original point, you don't have enough info to say factually all of the stuff you're saying.

[DRiccio21]

My biggest question is if you know he has a gun according to the call, I'd feel like after he's resisted/gotten tased, it would seem safer to draw weapons and wait for backup as opposed to tackling him, no? I think of it this way, if I'm in a random situation, I'd feel infinitely safer if I had a gun pointed at someone from a safe distance then if I were wrestling with them, so I wonder if that was the right call. But I'm not a cop, so I don't know what's correct or not in that case. And of course you could argue that whipping guns out isn't exactly a safe alternative for everyone around as well, so who knows.

this is it for me.

these dudes are trained to get out of these situations, not escalate them. the absolute last thing that should happen is shots fired.

i absolutely realize i'm not trained as an officer, i absolutely realize i'm far too much of a pussy to ever do that job, but part of that job is to make life or death decisions in split seconds in the most unimaginable circumstances.

on the flip side, i'm not saying he wasn't defending himself... i think alot of times the cops do think they are at risk, but that doesn't make their actions appropriate. they should, as you said, back up... call for back up and make sure everyone around them is safe

[DRiccio21]

got the referral for the program. info session/signup July 20th

proud of you!

now go be the #1 person in the apprenticeship

[Crowes]

Well considering the other half of his body was pinned under the car with the said cop on top of him it's highly unlikely.

His shoulder was moving up and down, he had a range of movement. Are you insinuating he couldn't get his hand in his pocket based on being near the car?

Buy still doesn't solve the problem of overly aggressive policing that lead to this imo

How can you know this without knowing what happened before the video was rolling?


Maybe they were talking to the guy before(witnesses state this), maybe he was making threats, and they felt he needed to be subdued immediately. Back to the original point, you don't have enough info to say factually all of the stuff you're saying.

But why did he need to be subdued right away? Surley with two cops their one with gun drawn if he made any physical movement to get violent they could have handled it. But big bad cop Rambo tactics were used so once again we have another situation like this where not following a command shouldn't be grounds for events that lead to someone's death. If they weren't in a situation to be able to subdue this man safely u wait for backup. Just seems like common sense to avoid stuff like to me but maybe not.....

[DRWebs]

Fwiw they attempted to subdue the subject via taser and then keeping him pinned down on the ground... It'd be different if they just shot him without doing any of that

[shel311]

But why did he need to be subdued right away? Surley with two cops their one with gun drawn if he made any physical movement to get violent they could have handled it. But big bad cop Rambo tactics were used so once again we have another situation like this where not following a command shouldn't be grounds for events that lead to someone's death. If they weren't in a situation to be able to subdue this man safely u wait for backup. Just seems like common sense to avoid stuff like to me but maybe not.....

If they drew their weapons on him, and he reached his hand into his pocket and they fired, wouldn't you be saying the same thing, murder?

[GeorgesGoons]

I am sorry, but you can watch the video and think whatever you want.
The reality is that the cops are in a high stress situation and made a snap judgement.
If the potential criminal would have respected them and didn't resist, this would have never happened.

I'd venture to say 90% or more of these questionable shootings would never have happened had the possible criminal complied with officers.

I don't think there is enough evidence just yet to pass judgement.

Saying this is murder at this point is just plain ignorant. Remember a lot of America thought Mike Brown was just a good kid that just graduated from HS.

[GeorgesGoons]

Congrats Nick. This is something I may venture towards after my time in Iraq. I'm not the type to sit in an office and I need to be out of an office to be happy.

[Crowes]

But why did he need to be subdued right away? Surley with two cops their one with gun drawn if he made any physical movement to get violent they could have handled it. But big bad cop Rambo tactics were used so once again we have another situation like this where not following a command shouldn't be grounds for events that lead to someone's death. If they weren't in a situation to be able to subdue this man safely u wait for backup. Just seems like common sense to avoid stuff like to me but maybe not.....

If they drew their weapons on him, and he reached his hand into his pocket and they fired, wouldn't you be saying the same thing, murder?

Nope. Maybe I'm wrong but what i see from the video and articles that two cops got to aggressive and tried to subdue the man and while struggling with him the one cop felt gun and the other cop overreacted killing the man. Which to me makes them responsible to killing a person. The man had two cops on tope of him he probably couldn't breath and was pain so him moving his arm doesn't seal the deal on deadly force being used for me. If I couldn't breath and was in pain I'd probably be squirming too.