Soccer discussion thread

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wdoupis
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by wdoupis »

I keep hearing how Pulisic is the most talented American player we have ever had. I am not really a soccer guy but like to watch the national team stuff. For you real soccer fans out here I have a question. How good is Pulisic in the world? We talking top 5, 15, 25, 50? I am just trying to get an idea of where he is in the sport.
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by nick »

who knows. prolly top 25 peak but hes on Chelsea and from what i heard he will be misused there
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by wdoupis »

That is the range I figured. You can definitely see he is on a different level than the rest of our guys, we need 2 more of those and we may be able to really do something.
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Uuaww
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by Uuaww »

wdoupis wrote:I keep hearing how Pulisic is the most talented American player we have ever had. I am not really a soccer guy but like to watch the national team stuff. For you real soccer fans out here I have a question. How good is Pulisic in the world? We talking top 5, 15, 25, 50? I am just trying to get an idea of where he is in the sport.
he didn't make the list of top 10 players under 21. Probably in the top 20 in that category. At the moment he is probably at the bottom of the top 100 in the world would be my guess. He has a lot of upside obviously being just 20 years old.

best case scenario is in 5-7 years he is Eden Hazard and a top 10 player in the world. Worst case scenario (where he doesn't get injured). he plays for Everton/West Ham or another mediocre premier league team as a regular starter... and would still be far and away the best american player.
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jsence2
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by jsence2 »

GeorgesGoons wrote:
DRWebs wrote:Freddy Adu!
You need someone at the Tiger level and someone born in America to make it work. Freddy Adu has zero name recognition, need someone popular enough that if you say his first name everyone knows who you are talking about
Timothy Weah is this person. If he comes good....son of a former world player of the year, came up with Paris St-Germain, was just sold to Lille. He's shown a ton of promise and if he can realize it, he's a player that can reach the minority sector a bit more than maybe a Pulisic.

The problem with American soccer is scouting and development, at its base. When I visited England, I saw first-hand some of the things I'd read about, and it made even more sense. Over there, it's very easy to get around. Hop on a train, head to the soccer grounds, where scouts and teams have people out there for a 10-field area with lots of kids playing. They're tied in with the youth teams (which are managed by people with licenses that could get you a college coaching job here), they are able to track kids, etc. There's no "pay to play", which makes it easier for any kid with skill to get noticed.

Their biggest development years are 15-21. Here, those kids are traveling a ton, playing in HS or college for coaches who are telling them "kick the ball, Johnny!" and are playing the players who give them the best chance to win--not the ones who are most promising and need playing time. Over there, those same kids are in academies, getting world-class training on ball skills, tactics, etc beyond anything 99% of the kids here will learn. They're also getting developed even if they aren't the best option for the team to win, because winning over there at that level is not the most important thing.

It's no fluke that the best players for the USMNT are usually players who end up overseas during this time. Pulisic was fighting against other world-class youth (like Jadon Sancho), and playing in the Dortmund team against Real Madrid at the same age that guys like Jordan Morris were the big man on campus, going to classes and traveling to play teams in the WAC or MWC. There's a massive difference in competition there.

Also, the MLS is part of the issue. Guys like Bradley, Altidore, etc....they are going to play. They can do nothing in practice and they will still play. There's no competition to push them out. Pulisic was benched for quite a bit of last season--not because he wasn't good enough, but because Sancho and Reus were in ridiculous form, and there was nowhere for him to play. His form dipped because of it, which happens with a loss of playing time, but he was still good enough that he would dominate in the MLS. That forced him to work harder to get back into the lineup, which he did. Now he's at Chelsea where he showed yesterday he's going to be a great fit in that system, and is already turning into a top playmaker for them. He will be relied upon to replace what they lost when Hazard left, and he's playing in the best league in the world--which will only help him develop even more. In short, the other promising youth in our pipeline will be much better served going to Europe than to college/MLS. Thankfully, many of them are finding their way to the Bundesliga right now and doing quite well (see Weston McKennie who is balling out with Schalke and was great in the Gold Cup).

Also, for the inner-city discussion...it's not just money, it's space. Most inner cities don't have dedicated space for soccer. In Europe, you'll see dual-courts for basketball with soccer goals underneath the hoop. We're actually developing a few of those spaces here in Louisville's more lower-income areas, and I'm happy to see it. Even then, they're not going to get noticed unless the team sends a scout out there and happens to see that kid playing.
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by jsence2 »

Also....dream come true a few months ago. Got to go to the United/Chelsea match, had an amazing seat right behind the goal in the Stretford End.

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S14: N Texas 7-1
S15: Wake 8-5
S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
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Cnasty
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by Cnasty »

You look like nick.
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jsence2
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by jsence2 »

Cnasty wrote:You look like nick.
I will fight you, sir
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S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
S22: Ohio 8-5
S23: ECU 12-2
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by nick »

he looks like Brett.
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dakshdar
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by dakshdar »

May as well end the US Soccer (Men's) experiment now - can't get more embarrassing than a loss to Canada.
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by Uuaww »

yup, pathetic. the US will never be good as long as they care more about making money than winning. coach should be fired but they wont.
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by nick »

dakshdar wrote:May as well end the US Soccer (Men's) experiment now - can't get more embarrassing than a loss to Canada.
US is arguably the most overrated soccer country. We've had this discussion... Imagine having 330+ mil people and you cant put a soccer team together :lol:

also Alphonso Davies > Any US player past/present
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Seeitsaveit13
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by Seeitsaveit13 »

Uuaww wrote:yup, pathetic. the US will never be good as long as they care more about making money than winning. coach should be fired but they wont.
Is it really his fault? I haven't been watching recently, but I can't imagine he is that bad already?
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LetsGoPeay
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by LetsGoPeay »

Seeitsaveit13 wrote:
Uuaww wrote:yup, pathetic. the US will never be good as long as they care more about making money than winning. coach should be fired but they wont.
Is it really his fault? I haven't been watching recently, but I can't imagine he is that bad already?
Yes. In over his head.
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

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LetsGoPeay wrote:
Seeitsaveit13 wrote:
Uuaww wrote:yup, pathetic. the US will never be good as long as they care more about making money than winning. coach should be fired but they wont.
Is it really his fault? I haven't been watching recently, but I can't imagine he is that bad already?
Yes. In over his head.
And hired because his brother is an executive with USSF.

Also, we "searched" for a manager for a year with no direction, didn't give Tata Martino so much as an interview, and let Mexico sign him. Great job, USSF.
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S14: N Texas 7-1
S15: Wake 8-5
S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
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GeorgesGoons
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by GeorgesGoons »

nick wrote:
dakshdar wrote:May as well end the US Soccer (Men's) experiment now - can't get more embarrassing than a loss to Canada.
US is arguably the most overrated soccer country. We've had this discussion... Imagine having 330+ mil people and you cant put a soccer team together :lol:

also Alphonso Davies > Any US player past/present
I've said it before. Soccer is not sexy here in the US. Therefore we'll never get some of these freak athletes to embrace it over other sports where they are college players at their peak
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by jsence2 »

GeorgesGoons wrote:
nick wrote:
dakshdar wrote:May as well end the US Soccer (Men's) experiment now - can't get more embarrassing than a loss to Canada.
US is arguably the most overrated soccer country. We've had this discussion... Imagine having 330+ mil people and you cant put a soccer team together :lol:

also Alphonso Davies > Any US player past/present
I've said it before. Soccer is not sexy here in the US. Therefore we'll never get some of these freak athletes to embrace it over other sports where they are college players at their peak

Some of the best players in the world are not "freak athletes". We don't need freak athletes, we need better organization, better coaching, etc. That's all tied to USSF, and they've spectacularly failed at all of it because it's all about profit for them. We don't lack the athleticism, we lack the development of technical skills.
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S14: N Texas 7-1
S15: Wake 8-5
S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
S22: Ohio 8-5
S23: ECU 12-2
S24-26: Kentucky 8-5, 5-7, 5-7
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jsence2
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by jsence2 »

nick wrote:
dakshdar wrote:May as well end the US Soccer (Men's) experiment now - can't get more embarrassing than a loss to Canada.
US is arguably the most overrated soccer country. We've had this discussion... Imagine having 330+ mil people and you cant put a soccer team together :lol:

also Alphonso Davies > Any US player past/present
Alphonso Davies is 19 years old, has made ten substitute appearances for Bayern over this calendar year, and has scored a total of two goals since leaving MLS. He isn't even a better Bundesliga player than Weston McKennie, so maybe slow down a bit there.

Also, China has 1.433 billion people. India has 1.366 billion people. Indonesia has 270 million people. Pretty sure we are well ahead of all three of them.
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S14: N Texas 7-1
S15: Wake 8-5
S16-21: Washington 9-4, 10-3, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6, 6-7
S22: Ohio 8-5
S23: ECU 12-2
S24-26: Kentucky 8-5, 5-7, 5-7
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by nick »

Alphonso Davies <3
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Re: Soccer discussion thread

Post by nick »

Davies #9 in the world in Value at 133 mil. :)
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