Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

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Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee?

Yes
17
94%
No
1
6%
 
Total votes: 18

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TheGobOne
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Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by TheGobOne »

Hey guys, bit of an early Winter Meeting but it affects how the rollover is done so I need to put it up early.

Here is the Stadium Calculator sheet I use for rollover for reference - https://www.shorturl.at/lKLOR

I would like to propose removing the stadium maintenance fee that is done during the rollover for a few reasons:

1) I don't like costs that you can't see in game.
2) The cost is so small that most teams don't notice it anyway.
3) It would save at least 50% of the time it takes to do the rollover after the World Series.
4) I don't think half the teams even know about it. I know I didn't know about it until I took over as commish (this is on me of course but just saying).

This vote requires 50% majority to pass.

P.S. If you see some of your stadium names in there and want to change them hit me up on Slack.
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qazhby
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by qazhby »

3) It would save at least 50% of the time it takes to do the rollover after the World Series.

easiest vote ever bc of this
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GeorgesGoons
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by GeorgesGoons »

qazhby wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:43 am 3) It would save at least 50% of the time it takes to do the rollover after the World Series.

easiest vote ever bc of this
agree
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LetsGoPeay
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by LetsGoPeay »

TheGobOne wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:40 am Hey guys, bit of an early Winter Meeting but it affects how the rollover is done so I need to put it up early.

Here is the Stadium Calculator sheet I use for rollover for reference - https://www.shorturl.at/lKLOR

I would like to propose removing the stadium maintenance fee that is done during the rollover for a few reasons:

1) I don't like costs that you can't see in game.
2) The cost is so small that most teams don't notice it anyway.
3) It would save at least 50% of the time it takes to do the rollover after the World Series.
4) I don't think half the teams even know about it. I know I didn't know about it until I took over as commish (this is on me of course but just saying).

This vote requires 50% majority to pass.

P.S. If you see some of your stadium names in there and want to change them hit me up on Slack.
Signed,
Veteran’s Stadium Ownership Group
3501 South Broad Street
Philadelphia, PA 19148
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michaelk
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by michaelk »

In favour of killing it. The less manual work for the commish the better.
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ReignOnU
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by ReignOnU »

1.) It should be in the game, but OOTP didn't consider the advantage of park differences.
2.) Delta of ~$3m isn't much in 1 season, but it's a cost to be considered when you work close to capacity. Also, there was a disparity in profitability that had to be accounted for way back at the start of the league. So the amounts did serve a purpose at 1 time.
3.) There's no way this should take 50% of your time. Should be no more than 15min to update this. The spreadsheet does all of the work for you.
4.) It's in place to prevent everyone from running 65k seat, retractable roofs in any market, without penalty.


Just commentary on each since I had some free time.

IF you do decide to remove it, I'd recommend adjusting either your average marketing income (down) or salaries (up). This represents ~$85m that you'll inject back into the league each season.
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TheGobOne
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by TheGobOne »

ReignOnU wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:02 pm 1.) It should be in the game, but OOTP didn't consider the advantage of park differences.
2.) Delta of ~$3m isn't much in 1 season, but it's a cost to be considered when you work close to capacity. Also, there was a disparity in profitability that had to be accounted for way back at the start of the league. So the amounts did serve a purpose at 1 time.
3.) There's no way this should take 50% of your time. Should be no more than 15min to update this. The spreadsheet does all of the work for you.
4.) It's in place to prevent everyone from running 65k seat, retractable roofs in any market, without penalty.


Just commentary on each since I had some free time.

IF you do decide to remove it, I'd recommend adjusting either your average marketing income (down) or salaries (up). This represents ~$85m that you'll inject back into the league each season.
1. Shocker. #smallteam devs strike again.
2. Revenue sharing does most of the heavy lifting in this area but I don't disagree.
3. I guess my editing skills aren't as fast as yours. Gotta get quicker fingers.
4. Is there a tangible advantage to different stadium types? If so I'd love to find info. Wouldn't surprise me in any way considering some of the details that are left out by the devs. Also there's an upfront cost to adding seats that's pretty hefty already IMO (which I like).

We have a huge cash problem in this league already IMO. Almost 1/2 the teams sit at the 50M cap most years. I have plans to try to alleviate this in the future but need to take baby steps as I don't want to put the current economy of the league off balance instantly.

Feedback is appreciated. Thanks.
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ReignOnU
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by ReignOnU »

2.) Revenue sharing does an OK job at balancing, interesting point that few likely remember or realize... you can both receive and pay in the same year. It handles drastic spending differences. Part of the reason the stadium fees came in was because we had an economic surplus. At one point, near the very beginning, significant sums of money had to be removed. This was one of the final touches that balanced things out.

3.) Off the top of my head, I believe there was a screen from the stats site we used to use that had accurate on-hand cash. You copy/paste it into Excel, sort by team name, paste it into the current on-hand. If that option doesn't work, open the file on 1 screen, OOTP on the other, go into the team details and enter the correct on-hand in the spreadsheet, then it does the work for you. Even if you went team by team, 30 teams, 30 seconds each, 15min.

4.) Money = Power = Money.. or at least it used to. Because all you had to do was win and winning led would breed winning.
Fairly simple explanation:
Massive stadium = More fans
More fans = more tickets, higher marketing, etc
Higher income = More money to spend on players
More money to spend on players = More winning
More winning = FULL STADIUM
FULL STADIUM Massive Stadium = HUGE Money
...and so on

It reaches a point that short of being a completely idiot or ghosting your team, you can't finish worse than .500. The stadium plays a key role though, because if everything else is equal between 2 teams, 65k per game vs 45k per game is nearly 45% more income. Even if you lose the extra cash at the end of the year to profit sharing, it's still not that bad because you have a bigger nest egg to share it out of.
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ReignOnU
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by ReignOnU »

Billy or someone can feel free to step in if I'm missing any changes that have occurred since I last played.
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TheGobOne
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by TheGobOne »

I feel like Market Size, Fan Loyalty, and Fan Interest has a much bigger impact on a team's money than their stadium type. But again, I haven't seen documentation that having a certain stadium type (dome vs grass) makes any difference. Obviously, amount of seats plays a function in money but I don't think it plays as big of a factor.

Definitely need to curb the excess money, though it's really exacerbated by the free agents that sit there - that are clearly upgrades for some teams - all offseason not getting paid and demanding double digit millions due to the free money in our economy.

I would like to create more "cash sinks" or lower the amount of cash allowed on hand but that's a debate for another topic and not something I want to rush into. More revenue almost always equals more spending which means more revenue sharing thus keeping most teams "within the curve" (unless you are Bowie lol).

Again, appreciate the feedback. Helps highlight some knowledge gaps for sure.
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ReignOnU
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by ReignOnU »

I don't have many of the old files quickly accessible, but I do recall that there was a cash on-hand cap of $50m at one point.

There was a reason stadium type was important and I'm trying to remember it... it definitely was a competitive advantage. Not playing in the rain or having delays may have had something to do with either finances or injuries, but I'm cloudy on what that specific advantage was.

Market Size - Huge competitive advantage, which is why at one point, all markets were set the same. Also, directly relates to seating capacity. Larger market = ability to fill larger stadium.

Fan Loyalty/Interest - Similar in what they accomplish, though different functions. Ultimately, it means asses in seats. Which, if you have 45% more seats means you're getting 45% more revenue if your loyalty/interest are high. (back to my point that it's a very simple cycle that once you figure it out, you'd literally have to tank to break it)

More cash sinks:
Player Nicknames: There was a time that you could pay a fee ($10m?) and have a nickname added to your player.
Promotion Days: We had a scaling system that allowed you to run various type of promotions (Bark in the Park, Bobblehead Day, etc) and depending on the level of promotion (different $ value tiers per SEAT) you would get a small bump in fan interest. This promotion was a cycle enabling kind of process and shows how more seating paid a higher cost, but could also garner a high benefit.

These nicknames and promotions were money sinks that teams would start to do during the summer months, as the season was winding down, to help them dump cash on hand, to get below the $50m threshold. (Use it or lose it).
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ReignOnU
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by ReignOnU »

It's an issue that exists in any "dynasty" kind of game, even beyond OOTP. (Madden franchises for example)

Here's what I can tell you to save you time:
- Adjusting your costs for FAs up across the board will only choke point the few elite players. But you most likely have guys getting locked into long-term deals during arb, which means teams aren't being penalized enough anyway.
- Adjusting your costs down for FAs will will just mean the teams have more cash on hand, they still won't choose a 30yo vet over a 25yo cheap kid.
- Contract restrictions can get you there, but you're going to go into the world of "unsim" and likely piss off people. The juice isn't worth the squeeze here.
- There is 1 alternative that "might" work based on a trial run I did long ago... you skyrocket your top tier of FAs. Create a massive gap between your studs (I forget what the setting calls them, but it's the top 2 groups IIRC) and "good" players. (Think top 20%) The issue I ran into looking at it like that was there were too many good players sitting in FA. It caused teams to have to create NBA like Big 3 kind of rosters.

Ultimately, I think you're probably nitpicking with the quality of talent and it's better off to leave this all alone.
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by The_Niddler »

And there was a spreadsheet that had everything, formulas and such already in it. All you did was plug in numbers and do very little work.
Sounds like Billy may not have passed that on to you Ryan.
Billy may not have used it himself, not sure. I would check with him.
I would look for it and send you a copy if I can find it, but it may be a moot point based on the voting here.
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TheGobOne
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by TheGobOne »

No Billy gave me the sheet and I used it last rollover. I guess I didn't really state how strongly I feel about costs that don't show up in game.

This vote already has 16 yes votes but I'll keep it open until the rollover.
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Re: Remove Stadium Maintenance Fee

Post by TheGobOne »

This vote has passed 17-1.

The thread is now locked.
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