Trade Thread

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The_Niddler
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

They all show as completed.
It sucks that they do not change the status to denied.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

And just FYI the bars in the console are more true to what the outcome will be.
The bar online shows a trade showing that I am giving up more, but I try to process it and it says the other team sees it as unfair.
I look at the trade in the game and yeah, the bar shows it as the CPU team is giving up more.

Just FYI to everyone.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

Indians send:
CP John Axford 30 82 B
SP F. Morales 28 78 C
RF J. Alvarado 19 60 B

Orioles send:
CP T. Rosenthal 23 92 A
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by I_S33M_THAB33T_U »

The_Niddler wrote:Indians send:
CP John Axford 30 82 B
SP F. Morales 28 78 C
RF J. Alvarado 19 60 B

Orioles send:
CP T. Rosenthal 23 92 A

1st thoughts.

1st off, Morales is 28 and would end up being there 5th starter. Then you take into account that you take their best player on the roster at 23 years old for a CP that is 30 and 12 points different then what they already have. And then add a OF that is only B pot.

I am going to say No to this as again.

A 5th SP that is older then 4 of there 5 already and losing best player on roster for no upgrade at all isn't going to work.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

Yeah my closer is 30, but even if we get through 5 seasons, he can be there starter for those 5 seasons. Not like I gave them a bum as a replacement CP. Yeah, he is 12 points under, but I gave them a SP as that is one of their team needs that it says they are seeking.
And I gave them a pretty damn good prospect in the RFer.

So my CP is 12 points under, but the 138 points extra I am giving them means nothing?

And if you look at Reign's trade...this is nothing against him at all, but how did it get accepted when he took their starting Catcher and the Catchers are 16 points apart?

Cincinnati Sends:
SP - D. Bundy 21yrs, 76 Ovr, A Pot
C - T. d'Arnaud 25yrs, 67 Ovr, B Pot

Tampa Sends:
C - W. Rosario 25yrs, 83 Ovr, B Pot

I am not saying his should be denied, I am just looking for some consistency here.
Do I need to go in and give them an A potential rookie, would that make you happy?

And what the hell does the A and B potential truly mean in this game?
If they are an A, does that mean they are guaranteed to be in the 80's to 90's?
Does that mean a B potential cannot reach that mark?

If I gave them Mike Stroehmer - RF- 22 - 64 - A instead, would that work for you?
or if I included J. Parris - SP - 19 - 58 - A instead.

I am not trying to be a dick, just trying to understand.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by Shiftdnb »

Reigns trade and your trade does not compare at all. Reign gave up a young SP with A potential for a B potential Catcher and included a B potential catcher as well. You gave up nothing equal in potential to the potential you were taking as well as ratings points being vastly different.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

OK, what if I did this:

Indians send:
CP J. Axford 30 82 B
SP K. Gausman 23 80 B

Orioles send
CP T. Rosenthal 23 92 A
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Re: Trade Threa

Post by Shiftdnb »

You're trying to after one of the best closers as far as ratings go in the game. You've got to give up a pretty big player at a position they need filled, not just another closer. Personally the only way I see tHe trade working is if you offered up Strasburg straight up or worked in your CF with the closer. But they already have Ellsbury. You really have no strong prospects that would make it worth losing one of the top closers and the best player on their team.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

shift, thank you.
Being honest.
I must be having an off night, but I do understand what you are saying.
What you just said made me realize, what if I had Rosenthal, what would it take to get him from me.

I apologize guys, back to the drawing board. :)
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by jsence2 »

Marlins send:

CP Steve Sichek--84 ovr, 27 years old, B potential
RF Nelson Cruz--83 ovr, 33 years old, B potential


Braves send:

CP Matt Lindstrom--77 ovr, 34 years old, B potential
LF Dayan Viciedo--76 ovr, 24 years old, B potential
SP John King--61 ovr, 22 years old, A potential (lefty)
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by ReignOnU »

A few things...
- With my trade, they had the best backup C that I saw, in D. Norris (25-75-B), the purpose of d'Arnaud, as I mentioned in the trade, but you didn't quote, was to give them another young player to groom with him. (I also threw out that I had a 22yr old B pot that I could send instead)

- Just because a player is an A, doesn't make them the next great player. I was afraid we might get this misconception and I see it festering. A/B/C refers to 2 things, #1 their maximum potential and #2 their pace of improving. Generally speaking, an A potential player is going to improve more and has a higher ceiling. But you need to look at the bigger picture...

***Example 1: 21yrs old, 75 ovr, A potential
- This player has a huge ceiling and at age 21, has the time to grow and really become something special. Players grow until 27-29, per the guides that I've read. (this is slightly later than OOTP) This player has at least 6yrs to grow into an A quality player at an A quality pace.

***Example 2: 25yrs old, 60 ovr, A potential
- While this player has a huge ceiling, there's no chance whatsoever that they make it. Their growth window is 2 or so years. Even at a 5pt per year clip, he'll never amount to more than a role player.

***Example 3: 21yrs old, 75 ovr, C potential
- This player is young and has the time to develop, the problem his, their ceiling is in the high 70s (pretty sure that's the target range). They also aren't going to grow at a fast pace at all. In reality, 78-79 by the time they are 27 is likely.

Now, the other thing I saw brought up kind of relates to the life of the league. While maybe I shouldn't, I am going to consider the life expectancy of our league. It's a franchise, it's on-going, but when I'm evaluating trades, I'm focused on what does this do for the team over the next 3 seasons. That's it. That's my target. This is something that I kept in mind when I made the trade that I did, as the A Pot SP would immediately be their #3, likely their #2 or #1 next season, even at age 21. In fact, by the end of season 3, he could very well be equal to the C that I had in return and I hold SP at a higher value overall than C.

So those are just some things about what I'm looking at when I see these trades. Obviously there's a lot more, like roster construction and salaries... but that's a whole other post.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

Indians send:
CP J. Axford 30 82 B
SP C. Archer 25 84 B
CP L. Escobar 18 61 A

Orioles send
CP T. Rosenthal 23 92 A

I give them a CP that is very decent that can start for them now.
Then a nice young CP prospect with A potential who definitely has the time to grow into his potential at only 18 years old.
I also give them a damn good SP in return who would be their #2 right now.

And the trade value shows I am giving up more on my side of things.

And reign, thanks for the info, that helps a lot actually.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by ReignOnU »

jsence2 wrote:Marlins send:

CP Steve Sichek--84 ovr, 27 years old, B potential
RF Nelson Cruz--83 ovr, 33 years old, B potential


Braves send:

CP Matt Lindstrom--77 ovr, 34 years old, B potential
LF Dayan Viciedo--76 ovr, 24 years old, B potential
SP John King--61 ovr, 22 years old, A potential (lefty)
This is closer. I'm not convinced it's fair for our league though. IRL, I'd probably say yes. I'm not going to say no yet, I'll look at it in the morning again. I really don't want to be a trade nazi, I hate the freakin' idea of saying no to so much. But it would be a helluva lot easier if you guys also asked a very simple question... would I accept this trade for this league right now, if I were on the other end? If you can say yes and with a convincing reason, then feel free to post that when you post the trades.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by ReignOnU »

The_Niddler wrote:Indians send:
CP J. Axford 30 82 B
SP C. Archer 25 84 B
CP L. Escobar 18 61 A

Orioles send
CP T. Rosenthal 23 92 A

I give them a CP that is very decent that can start for them now.
Then a nice young CP prospect with A potential who definitely has the time to grow into his potential at only 18 years old.
I also give them a damn good SP in return who would be their #2 right now.

And the trade value shows I am giving up more on my side of things.

And reign, thanks for the info, that helps a lot actually.
I think this is good and approve.

I don't give a lot of value to the 18yr old in the deal, but I think the gain of Archer is enough to cover the difference in the CPs. Rosenthal could be the best in our league soon, but Axford will be solid for awhile and the Os have a decent bullpen (Tazawa/OFlaherty). Archer, at 25, will grow each season still has has some room in his overall to advance a few points. WIth Iwakuma at 32, he could potentially be their #1 next season, if not, definitely by the 3rd season.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

Indians send:
C. F. Cervelli 27 75 C
RP D. Leone 22 67 C

White Sox send:
C Y. Gomes 26 80 C

I am an Indians fan in real life and he is our Catcher in real life.
And they have it posted they are in need of RPs.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by I_S33M_THAB33T_U »

The_Niddler wrote:Indians send:
C. F. Cervelli 27 75 C
RP D. Leone 22 67 C

White Sox send:
C Y. Gomes 26 80 C

I am an Indians fan in real life and he is our Catcher in real life.
And they have it posted they are in need of RPs.

This one is fine, and I will put it through. This is also your last deal.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

Yep and thank you.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by jsence2 »

ReignOnU wrote:
jsence2 wrote:Marlins send:

CP Steve Sichek--84 ovr, 27 years old, B potential
RF Nelson Cruz--83 ovr, 33 years old, B potential


Braves send:

CP Matt Lindstrom--77 ovr, 34 years old, B potential
LF Dayan Viciedo--76 ovr, 24 years old, B potential
SP John King--61 ovr, 22 years old, A potential (lefty)
This is closer. I'm not convinced it's fair for our league though. IRL, I'd probably say yes. I'm not going to say no yet, I'll look at it in the morning again. I really don't want to be a trade nazi, I hate the freakin' idea of saying no to so much. But it would be a helluva lot easier if you guys also asked a very simple question... would I accept this trade for this league right now, if I were on the other end? If you can say yes and with a convincing reason, then feel free to post that when you post the trades.

Per Ryan, we are running this until the next game comes out. Thus giving up prospects matters. I'm giving up a younger OF not yet in his prime, for an older one hitting the decline of his career. I am getting a younger closer who is better, but I'm offsetting that by giving up an A potential SP who will likely progress to mid-to-upper 70s, maybe even higher. As you said, in real life you'd say yes. That's how I put it together, looking at it how a GM would, as they would be:

Paying less for a younger OF who can grow, getting more years out of him
Downgrading at closer but gaining a young, promising SP prospect

Meanwhile, I give up an OF I think very highly of and starts for me, and give up an SP prospect to get an older OF who will do well now but decline in a year or two and gain a better closer.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by jsence2 »

Not that it matters, it is showing in the "completed" section which, since it wasn't posted in accepted thread, means it was declined.

If we're going to have a committee, it would be really nice to have public votes and reasoning behind them when a vote is approved/declined. Especially when I feel I provided a more than fair deal there.
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Re: Trade Thread

Post by The_Niddler »

I would ask reign to weigh in since he said it was closer, but he wasn't sure what he would vote before.
I would ask Ryan his thoughts too.

You are taking their CP who is 27 and giving them a 34 year old.
Both will most likely not get any better based on Reign's post providing input on the players potential and ages.
So the Marlins are losing that portion.

The OFers, you are giving them a younger one who will most likely get to about where Cruz is.
So this is about even in my eyes.

Then you are giving them a SP who is a nice prospect.
And they have a few SPs that are older, so this will most likely work out for them at SP.

I would probably vote for it.

ReignOnU wrote:
jsence2 wrote:Marlins send:

CP Steve Sichek--84 ovr, 27 years old, B potential
RF Nelson Cruz--83 ovr, 33 years old, B potential


Braves send:

CP Matt Lindstrom--77 ovr, 34 years old, B potential
LF Dayan Viciedo--76 ovr, 24 years old, B potential
SP John King--61 ovr, 22 years old, A potential (lefty)
This is closer. I'm not convinced it's fair for our league though. IRL, I'd probably say yes. I'm not going to say no yet, I'll look at it in the morning again. I really don't want to be a trade nazi, I hate the freakin' idea of saying no to so much. But it would be a helluva lot easier if you guys also asked a very simple question... would I accept this trade for this league right now, if I were on the other end? If you can say yes and with a convincing reason, then feel free to post that when you post the trades.
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